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Post by Reviewer on Nov 21, 2023 20:13:47 GMT
I don’t give a fuck about being in the office so that others can learn from me. I do my job, training others isn’t part of that.
I’m saving my money in petrol and watching what I want at lunchtime.
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Post by clemfandango on Nov 21, 2023 20:16:37 GMT
There’s no ‘I’ in team….
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Nov 21, 2023 20:17:22 GMT
Genuinely curious. What job doesn't involve training other people in some capacity?
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cubby
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doesn't get subtext
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Post by cubby on Nov 21, 2023 20:21:38 GMT
CEO
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Post by JuniorFE on Nov 21, 2023 20:24:20 GMT
There is one in sanity though  |
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sport✅
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Post by sport✅ on Nov 21, 2023 20:26:10 GMT
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Post by Reviewer on Nov 21, 2023 20:33:07 GMT
Genuinely curious. What job doesn't involve training other people in some capacity? Loads of jobs, in fact pretty much every single one in my company except the training department. Lots of different types of engineers essentially. |
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Nov 21, 2023 20:38:38 GMT
Genuinely curious. What job doesn't involve training other people in some capacity? Loads of jobs, in fact pretty much every single one in my company except the training department. Lots of different types of engineers essentially. Huh. I'd block any software engineer from making senior saying that or if they already were get the fuck rid of them. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 21, 2023 20:45:56 GMT
Yeah, even if you come in with good skills, most places I’ve worked required at least some degree of training on how to apply them *there*. Nobody ever uses the same set of tools or processes and it’s the boots on the ground who share that knowledge.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Nov 21, 2023 21:04:13 GMT
Yeah, even if you come in with good skills, most places I’ve worked required at least some degree of training on how to apply them *there*. Nobody ever uses the same set of tools or processes and it’s the boots on the ground who share that knowledge. Yeah. Like retail someone needs to show you how to work the till, barwork someone needs to tell you how to change a barrel. Engineering you need to pick up what good even looks like, how to critique code, how to improve, how to deal with whatever bullshit productivity tool the project manager came up with this time, which managers to just ignore... I've never met a coder straight out of Uni who was actually any fucking use. I've met plenty who thought they were ninjas but never met one who is. Though even seniors who think they're ninjas are fucking liabilities. Everyone has to pick this shit up from somewhere and that somewhere is your team. |
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Post by Reviewer on Nov 21, 2023 21:21:25 GMT
My place is probably a slight exception in that 90% of the workforce has been there for over 15 years or more and if you do the work and do help train others then you don’t get a promotion because you’re too valuable where you are.
In my department I’m the newest starter and I’ve been there 8 years.
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Post by elstoof on Nov 21, 2023 21:34:58 GMT
Do you work for a cult
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Post by Reviewer on Nov 21, 2023 21:49:28 GMT
Feels like it sometimes.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Nov 21, 2023 22:12:46 GMT
Apologies if I was being overly judgemental.
To drag it back to politics. I think I just have a communitarian bent. None of us exist in a vacuum, we all owe something to parents, teachers who bothered to put some effort in, NHS doctors if your mum had a difficult birth, the community or police/judicial system so that I can go about life relatively safely without having to bribe low level officials etc. etc. There was always someone at any job who took the time to show you how to do things and it ought to be expected behaviour IMO.
What really grinds my gears are Libertarians (Musk, Truss etc.) who make out they got where they were on their own genius so owe nobody anything, let alone taxes. Or the other kind of Tories like Rees-Mogg who just atomise people into obedient workers they want to micro-manage, or any time they say education policy is just about knocking out productive workers. So A-Levels/Uni should just be skills for the workplace, absolving profit seeking companies from actually bothering to do it themselves, and entirely missing all the other things education gives you. Like I'm definitely a Physical Sciences and Engineering person, with all the casting shade at Uni on the humanities that goes with. But what's a school education if no one ever gives you the chance to try an instrument, read a novel or do some art just because it's actually good for you.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Nov 21, 2023 22:28:44 GMT
Not judgemental. Just comes across a bit salty.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Nov 21, 2023 22:40:18 GMT
I mean, reviewer's place don't sound normal tbf.
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Post by anthonyuk on Nov 21, 2023 22:49:27 GMT
Each to their own I guess. Personally I spend at least part of my week in the office simply to be around other humans, even as just ambient noise at times. I find being at home all week quite isolating if I'm honest. I guess I'm naturally social, but also enjoy having a firmer line between my place of work and my home.
Maybe 40-50% of the company does the same as me for similar reasons, where as others I've not seen in person since before covid hit.
On a similar note, I can't think of much worse than learning a new role off site via bloody teams, which ironically removes all sense of team and company identity in the process.
Don't get me wrong,huge fan of saving £100 a month on fuel and my commute taking 15 seconds. Just not sold on replacing bouncing thoughts and ideas effortlessly within seconds in person, with a glorified version of MSN messenger.
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Tomo
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Post by Tomo on Nov 21, 2023 23:05:31 GMT
THREE YEARS! Fuck me that's ridiculous. Meanwhile the cunt who hit and run my girlfriend last year got away with a fine and driving ban. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 21, 2023 23:06:49 GMT
There’s rumours they are going to force us back into the office soon. I don’t know how they are going to manage it. We have such a widespread workforce now, less office space and someone just won a tribunal for being managed out after their boss tried to get them back in based on feelings not facts (they couldn’t provide a single metric that said her performance suffered at home).
The problem is that it is fundamentally a pay cut. At best travel and subsistence and at worst that and childcare costs. The lease on my new motor won’t cover more than a couple of days a week so they can fuck themselves if it’s any more than that.
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Post by stuz359 on Nov 21, 2023 23:07:23 GMT
I think the idea of people not working and just receiving a UBI or something is quite a weird one.
We tie up so much of ourselves in the identity of work, a purpose in our lives. I've seen a fair few who once they retire, are dead in a couple of years because they don't have that purpose.
There is the training aspect, it is simpler to explain things in person to someone, or collaboration as well.
I think we also need to remember, people form friendships at work, relationships, meet their partners at work. If we take that communal aspect away from peoples lives what do we replace it with?
I think we are all of a certain age, we have relationships formed in our lives that maybe it doesn't matter to us so much (or maybe it does, who knows?), but certainly for younger people coming through the workforce.
I sat for two hours today talking an apprentice through an engineering drawing, best practices for drawing standards, creating it in the first place etc... He wouldn't have got the same from a tutorial or googling something.
Other times, I think fuck this, really want to work from home and in general, fuck people too.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Nov 21, 2023 23:13:15 GMT
Government wanna send a message though right?
Hope everything is ok Tomo. I really respect you not taking matters into your own hands.
As for WFH - I did a commute recently to a site that's 15 miles as the crow flies and I left at 7am to avoid the worst traffic. Absolutely no fucking way I'll do that again.
I'll take the dead dad inheritance, shove it into savings for a bit, stay at this job WFH for a few years and then cut down my hours once I pay the mortgage off.
I get calls from agencies and employers and I basically tell them "up my salary by £5k and WFH or up it by £10k to get me on site". They usually don't bother following up.
Addendum - what weird places are people working where they meet their partner there? I'd never mix work and personal life. Work is work. I've got other things going on.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 21, 2023 23:17:10 GMT
I think we also need to remember, people form friendships at work, relationships, meet their partners at work. If we take that communal aspect away from peoples lives what do we replace it with? Literally anything? I have more time for my family and hobbies, I have younger members of my team who never had to move for work and still live around friends and family so, I assume, have those relationships formed already. Yeah, you lose office life but you get a lot back if you want it. All that said, I am training two new starters currently and it will take longer and is more of a pain in the arse doing it remotely but you get there in the end. |
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Lizard
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Post by Lizard on Nov 21, 2023 23:18:50 GMT
Addendum - what weird places are people working where they meet their partner there? I'd never mix work and personal life. Work is work. I've got other things going on. Brothels and morgues would be my first guesses |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 21, 2023 23:21:30 GMT
Addendum - what weird places are people working where they meet their partner there? I'd never mix work and personal life. Work is work. I've got other things going on. I work in a megacorp, 16k people, 200+ per department in our old building alone. People were hooking up *constantly* |
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Nov 21, 2023 23:22:52 GMT
Nick gets it.
If people ask "what do you do?" My first thought is NEVER my job. Normally I just say "depends what day it is or what band I'm in".
Most jobs don't need to exist. They shouldn't, really.
Ah, I've just seen user nick works in a sex coven. Perhaps not.
Just sounds a HR nightmare. Hook up on Tinder or in car parks like a normal person. Fuck doing it at work.
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Post by Danno on Nov 21, 2023 23:27:25 GMT
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Post by Vandelay on Nov 21, 2023 23:33:34 GMT
We've been over this not too long ago, but I will say again it is deeply sad that people would find their lives empty without working and it shows something really fucked up about our society.
Sure, people make friends through work. I would much rather have the time I would be at work spent meeting people through clubs, classes or other gatherings though, where the people are much more likely to actually have similar interests to me.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Nov 21, 2023 23:37:27 GMT
I do feel bad for making that personal rather than just stating my opinion.
Yeah never hooked up with anyone at work, used to work in video games though so not many women around and the poor lasses were probably so harassed the last thing they need is another horrible nerd hitting on them. Lots of my friends who I go drinking with every couple weeks are from (ex)work though, it's one of the ways I made friends moving cities.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Nov 21, 2023 23:43:56 GMT
Nick gets it. If people ask "what do you do?" My first thought is NEVER my job. Normally I just say "depends what day it is or what band I'm in". Most jobs don't need to exist. They shouldn't, really. Ah, I've just seen user nick works in a sex coven. Perhaps not. Just sounds a HR nightmare. Hook up on Tinder or in car parks like a normal person. Fuck doing it at work. I've met quite a few gf through work. It just happens I guess. |
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Nov 21, 2023 23:49:55 GMT
Oh, no. But then I don't think I'd go out with anyone that lives near me or I'd cross paths with a lot. They'd have to properly be vetted, in case it goes tits up. I'd want to know them for a good while beforehand.
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