|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Sept 11, 2024 13:49:16 GMT
There's been a sizeable decrease in elderly people dying in winter due to the introduction of the payment. In an ideal world those that need support will get it but I doubt the UK government and it's various departments will be able to put in place an effective and accurate means testing system in the space of 8 - 10 weeks.
Energy bills are rising again. Year on year it has becomes more expensive to heat a home, why rush through a decision now instead of waiting till next year.
|
|
minimatt
Junior Member
hyper mediocrity
Posts: 1,686
|
Post by minimatt on Sept 11, 2024 13:57:06 GMT
the means testing is in place already - existing eligibilty for pension credit = eligibility for winter fuel allowance
and re increased survivability of elderly, is that due to the WFA or because of the other support mechanisms put in place over the last couple of decades, eg triple lock?
|
|
|
|
Post by drhickman1983 on Sept 11, 2024 14:05:08 GMT
I broadly support the cut. A lot of pensioners fully need it.
Is the means testing based on pension credits robust enough? I'm not sure.
Agree we can't lump all pensioners together, but we aren't. and I'm all for decisive action instead of dithering about.
|
|
|
|
Post by Reviewer on Sept 11, 2024 14:13:15 GMT
I think that money can be far better spent elsewhere and any benefit that goes to very well off people because admin is hard, especially when other people are struggling, is just wrong.
It’s weird there’s really a debate about that. People want benefit cuts for those on minimum wage and can’t feed themselves, but then they don’t want some people who are very wealthy to not get some money because they’re old.
|
|
|
|
Post by knighty on Sept 11, 2024 14:23:01 GMT
Fuck it all and go full UBI if the admin is that hard.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 11, 2024 14:26:34 GMT
I suppose it's the strange observation that when people talk about the Benefits system they associate that with UC/JSA/PIP etc but they rarely add pension related stuff to that Welfare basket.
|
|
cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,378
|
Post by cubby on Sept 11, 2024 14:38:58 GMT
Only lazy people get benefits jambo, old people don't fit that criteria.
|
|
|
|
Post by drhickman1983 on Sept 11, 2024 14:50:02 GMT
There was this article that made me laugh a bit www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/i-live-sleep-one-room-29902384So the pensioner says she'll need to be in one room. Sounds bad, and maybe it is that bad for her, she doesn't really go into specifics of her budget. But what make me laugh is this section: The whole bit about fighting and laying down their lives was hilarious. Pretty sure those who laid down their lives wouldn't really care about heating. They'd be dead. And she says she isn't claiming benefits - if you're as poor as you claim, maybe you should? The heating allowance is a benefit so you've been claiming that for 15 years at least. Too proud to ask for benefits (but not so proud to pull a compoface when a benefit is removed). |
|
|
|
Post by technoish on Sept 11, 2024 15:00:41 GMT
Anybody that fought in the war is now at least 97/98, so there can barely be any left. I think they were saying this year's D Day celebrations maybe the last big one with actual veterans at it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vandelay on Sept 11, 2024 15:09:16 GMT
Pensioner that claims their state pension (and previously received the WFA) says they never claimed any benefits...
|
|
rftp
New Member
Posts: 720
|
Post by rftp on Sept 11, 2024 15:36:37 GMT
Iirc, there's less than 100 surviving WW2 veterans worldwide.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Sept 11, 2024 15:59:13 GMT
Comments on BBC articles since Labour got into power seem to be completely infected with Daily Mail types and language.
Lots of "Liebor", "Two Tier Kier" and the like. They've never been full of amazing discourse but have been fairly sensible for as long as I remember. Now a lot seem quite unhinged.
Anyone else noticed this or do we as a nation just love complaining no matter who's in power?
|
|
|
|
Post by starchildhypocrethes on Sept 11, 2024 16:08:32 GMT
BBC News comments have been an absolute crash for years. Have Your Say was toxic before anyone was even using that phrase.
|
|
Frog
Full Member
Posts: 7,284
|
Post by Frog on Sept 11, 2024 16:10:59 GMT
The right always call people snowflakes because they complain about stuff. Until things don't go their way and then they don't shut the fuck up for whining.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vandelay on Sept 11, 2024 16:15:16 GMT
The Guardian's are absolutely awful now too. Basically everybody calling Starmer a murderer. He seems to be almost as hated as their one true nemesis... Tony Blair.
There was plenty of negativity aimed at Starmer before, with people calling him slimy or whatever, but it was normally balanced out by an equal number of people supportive of an upcoming Labour government, and the criticisms were at least not as ridiculously hyperbolic. Completely unreadable now.
|
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Sept 11, 2024 16:16:12 GMT
BBC News comments have been an absolute crash for years. Have Your Say was toxic before anyone was even using that phrase. Think that's a bit harsh - they're nowhere near the insanity that The Sun/Daily Mail comments sections are, even if that's an incredibly low bar. |
|
|
|
Post by rhaegyr on Sept 11, 2024 16:16:59 GMT
Nobody has time for nuance. It has to be everything, right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by starchildhypocrethes on Sept 11, 2024 16:47:47 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by muddyfunster on Sept 11, 2024 17:26:51 GMT
I do find the extent of the outcry about this a bit over the top. As others have said, it is means tested and no it won't be perfect but it's a reasonable place to start.
The outrage on the right is funny given it was literally a 2017 Conservative manifesto promise.
|
|
|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Sept 11, 2024 17:35:10 GMT
If this had been a Tory decision they thread would be full of outrage.
|
|
|
|
Post by starchildhypocrethes on Sept 11, 2024 17:40:28 GMT
That’s only because they’d have found a way to ensure the wealthy pensioners kept it and those that needed it didn’t get it for not working hard enough when they were able to, or something.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vandelay on Sept 11, 2024 18:14:15 GMT
I have no memory of whether I was outraged by them putting it in their 2017 manifesto. To be honest, I expect I was too focused on being outraged by Brexit to pay attention to anything else. It is likely I would have been if I did notice it though.
The difference is that I expect a Labour government to at least put some effort into protecting those that do need the support. For example, they right now are putting in the effort to make sure that those who can apply for pension credit are doing so (they have even said they fully expect that this means they won't save as much money as they have said the change will save, to much flak). I also expect them to support the NHS, to do more if energy prices skyrocket, etc.
Maybe some of that is naive, but I certainly do not have those expectations when the Tories are in charge.
|
|
zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 3,010
|
Post by zephro on Sept 11, 2024 18:26:57 GMT
The Guardian's are absolutely awful now too. Basically everybody calling Starmer a murderer. He seems to be almost as hated as their one true nemesis... Tony Blair. There was plenty of negativity aimed at Starmer before, with people calling him slimy or whatever, but it was normally balanced out by an equal number of people supportive of an upcoming Labour government, and the criticisms were at least not as ridiculously hyperbolic. Completely unreadable now. Possibly why I'm so fed up but I put up with the election in Islington North. Corbyns campaign technically kept it's hands clean and went on about the introduction of the 310 bus a lot. Dunno why it's not a useful bus. However there were then Owen Jones' lot. Who fly posted everywhere with borderline slander. Never named an election agent or put proper contact details on anything. They merely alluded to possibly libelous stuff. Then there were the laminated signs on lamp posts literally saying voting for Starmer made you complicit in genocide. Or people writing chalk on the pavement out the tube that Labour would privatise the NHS. Though I'm sure they were from the same campaign as Jones just with deniability. My hunch anyway. Same with Jess Phillips saying her assistants were harassed and had their car tyres slashed. It's all gone fucking unhinged. Why can't we just sit back and enjoy winning for a while for fucks sake. Corbyn & Friends are still putting flyers through doors now saying they're campaigning to end the war. It's unclear which one they mean or even what war the British state is actually involved in and could end. Also the Guardian should just fire Jones. |
|
|
|
Post by baihu1983 on Sept 11, 2024 18:37:53 GMT
Someone at work was saying her parents would have been hurt by this if still alive.
The house they fully paid for back in the 70s sold for 1.5m 10 years ago ..
|
|
apollo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,721
|
Post by apollo on Sept 11, 2024 18:48:11 GMT
The Guardian's are absolutely awful now too. Basically everybody calling Starmer a murderer. He seems to be almost as hated as their one true nemesis... Tony Blair. There was plenty of negativity aimed at Starmer before, with people calling him slimy or whatever, but it was normally balanced out by an equal number of people supportive of an upcoming Labour government, and the criticisms were at least not as ridiculously hyperbolic. Completely unreadable now. Possibly why I'm so fed up but I put up with the election in Islington North. Corbyns campaign technically kept it's hands clean and went on about the introduction of the 310 bus a lot. Dunno why it's not a useful bus. However there were then Owen Jones' lot. Who fly posted everywhere with borderline slander. Never named an election agent or put proper contact details on anything. They merely alluded to possibly libelous stuff. Then there were the laminated signs on lamp posts literally saying voting for Starmer made you complicit in genocide. Or people writing chalk on the pavement out the tube that Labour would privatise the NHS. Though I'm sure they were from the same campaign as Jones just with deniability. My hunch anyway. Same with Jess Phillips saying her assistants were harassed and had their car tyres slashed. It's all gone fucking unhinged. Why can't we just sit back and enjoy winning for a while for fucks sake. Corbyn & Friends are still putting flyers through doors now saying they're campaigning to end the war. It's unclear which one they mean or even what war the British state is actually involved in and could end. Also the Guardian should just fire Jones. "Owen Jones' lot" think its ok to harass, slash tyres and libel when THEY do it as its for the greater good, (THE GREATER GOOD) But they are not do different from far right nutters, they are actually awful people but they are believe they are right, disagree with them and you are "chuds" or capitalist chud" if they actually dribbling out 2 words in a a row
As for Corbyn & Friends, I fully believe they don't want a lasting peace they just want another October 7th. The fact is the UK gov has no influence in the area and peace talks have been sabotaged by the middle east
|
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Sept 11, 2024 19:00:56 GMT
It's very much the same energy as councillors voted in because they wanted a ceasefire in Gaza. Yes, your local councillor has that kind of power.
|
|
|
|
Post by Reviewer on Sept 11, 2024 19:01:21 GMT
The argument that they’ve spent so their life paying in so they should get the money is just wrong. Not everyone gets out what they paid in, that’s how tax works.
The threshold has to be correct so those that need it get it. No one else should get it just because they worked so their life.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bill in the rain on Sept 12, 2024 1:44:26 GMT
Comments on BBC articles since Labour got into power seem to be completely infected with Daily Mail types and language. Lots of "Liebor", "Two Tier Kier" and the like. They've never been full of amazing discourse but have been fairly sensible for as long as I remember. Now a lot seem quite unhinged. Anyone else noticed this or do we as a nation just love complaining no matter who's in power? They were always a cesspit, and mainly full of the kind of right-wing Daily Mail people who used to spend their time sitting at home writing letters to their local paper to complain about everything. Brexit made that worse, but over the past few years the disaster that was the Tory Government actually managed to quiet down a lot of the Daily Mail types. Even they couldn't really defend Brexit or the government anymore. But now that it's a Labour government, they're back in full voice. Plus Brits *do* just love to complain, no matter who is in power. And the press and now social media encourages that. |
|
|
|
Post by Reviewer on Sept 12, 2024 7:26:33 GMT
If this had been a Tory decision they thread would be full of outrage. The tories would never have done it as it’s their core voting base, and no, there wouldn’t have been outrage if they’d done this exact thing. |
|
Blue_Mike
Full Member
Meet Hanako At Embers
Posts: 5,384
|
Post by Blue_Mike on Sept 12, 2024 8:48:31 GMT
The constant complaining comments on any news article are probably a 50/50 split between entitled, uninformed Brits and Russian comment farmers working overtime.
Kevin ShyteBollocks from Kent, twinned with Pavel BreadQueueovitch from Moscow.
|
|
