UK Politics Thread

Yes, wouldn't have cut the allowance but shredded every other benefit or support system that isn't related to pensioners.

Yeah I get the argument that it creates admin but almost every other benefit on the welfare state strata is means tested so why isnt this one and when I worked for the DWP we would always remark on why that particular one wasn't.

I had to double take when I saw that 27% figure, but apparently according to the ONS, yes 27% of pensioners have assets and household wealth of over a million pound. I get that there are caveats to that, like some of those not having much actual disposable income (I.e fallen into owning a house that has rised in value over the years), but I can see why Labour have gone for this.

Just that maybe it should have come in the budget when we’re all equally getting fucked and part of a wider array of reforms to the pension sector. It isn’t right that a significant amount of people are getting it when they don’t need it but at the same time people are are going to struggle. They probably end up raising the threshold a few k, because optically at the moment it is a bit of a shit show.

The timing of the budget was set for October so the OBR could do a lengthy dive into the government accounts.

I think announcing the removal of the Winter fuel payment was a mistake especially as they look like they're upping the pension by £400 anyway but that increase won't be until April in all likelihood.

Comms fuck up really.

I think the timing point is more a design feature than a bug... Make decision and announcement early, and soon after coming in, blame previous lot as much as possible (gets harder to do as more time passes), let it dominate press for a while, and then it's not the main story at the actual Budget. Also, timing wise, gives people affected a bit more time to plan ahead...

"Can I … make an impassioned plea to those sitting opposite. Look to your conscience. These measures, you know in your heart that these measures are wrong. You know in your heart that [Labour] has broken their promises and that these measures are going to lead to untold hardship for millions of elderly and vulnerable people right up and down this country.

You now have an opportunity to join with us and put a stop to it."

Mel Stride, a Tory, today talking about going with your conscience to Labour about the Winter fuel payments. Yes I think this is a strange hill to die for Starmer et al on but I'm amazed that a Tory can say this with a straight face.

I think it is particularly interesting that I saw Mick Lynch and Sharon Graham on Channel 4 News last night sharing their outrage at the Winter Fuel Allowance announcement. That will be the unions complaining about government announcements about pensioners...

Of course, they are perfectly entitled to their opinion as individuals about anything the government announces, but it certainly doesn't fall under their remit as union bosses. It does give the sense of people finding an excuse to stick the knife in. You expect it from the opposition, but it is frustrating when it is the people you would think should be a little more sympathetic.

As mentioned before, I think the cut off they have gone for is too low and I also think that the messaging has been abysmal. The repeated refrain now of "tough choices, but no other option" is bollocks and we all know that there were other options. They need to be saying why this is the option they have gone for, even if the reason is that they think pensioners have it too easy.

Also, even if they couldn't bring the full budget forward, they could have announced more than just this one thing. It also seems to have really blown up since calling this vote.

There's a large element of "do not have a fucking summer election" as immediately going on summer recess has caused a vacuum for noise.

But yeah there's a lot of people to the left of Starmer or the left(ish*) of Labour who are basically just demanding EVERYTHING and NOW. So nothing is ever good enough. They're going to be in power for 4-5 years and none of this stuff is quick or easy.

Like nothing in the right direction is OK, it has to be all the way there right now. The suspension of arms exports to Israel was a big step, but not the whole step there so obviously it managed to piss off the Left & Israel. Which is just dumb.


* I question it for the Greens and LibDems due to their NIMPYism and Jeremy Corbyn & Friends seems to contain a bunch of people who have real problems with women.

Goodbye Mel Stride, at least you didn't come last like Priti.

Not that anyone knew who the fuck you were.

Bad Enoch 28
James "Cleverly" 21
Dishonest Bob 33
Mel Stride (who?) 16
Tom TugsHisHat 21

Chin the bastards Matt!

There’s never going to be a serious discussion around government finances in this country.

Services etc needed cost a lot of money. The simple choice is cut some or raise taxes (or increase tax and improve them). Instead the narrative is no increase to tax and nothing cut.

If the well off pensioners get to keep the money they don’t need then, if tax stays the same, what gets cut instead. If taxes go up, who pays? Should be those that can afford it but it never happens, and a lot of those are pensioners. The increase they’re set for next year is a bigger increase than most works will get.

The other alternative is take on more debt, invest and hope for faster growth. It’s better but riskier.

The right complaining is rich when they wasted billions.

Lumping all pensioners into a group is the problem. Some are wealthy some are struggling.

More people will die or become seriously ill this winter due to not heating their house. The data is there if you want to Google it.

I don't really give a fuck if some wealthy people benefit by a few hundred quid if it means those that are desperate get to stay warm/alive.

Pulling this benefit in Autumn is a mistake. Carry out an assessment, put in place the proper means testing structures and roll it out next year rather than giving a last minute fuck you to the elderly.