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Post by Dougs on Jul 17, 2024 6:06:51 GMT
$$$
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Post by Chopsen on Jul 17, 2024 6:07:19 GMT
Yeah I think the last thing our tax system needs is more complexity. If nothing else it just introduces more loopholes to be exploited, and the need of more legislation and effort to police (eg IR35).
One of the things I agreed with the Tories with was the idea of phasing out NI. But I think we also need to raise taxes generally.
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Post by Chopsen on Jul 17, 2024 6:10:13 GMT
The other strategy is people die from lack of care. Life expectancy is falling in the US. |
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Post by Dougs on Jul 17, 2024 6:22:37 GMT
Well yes. That too.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 17, 2024 6:37:55 GMT
certainly sounds more progressive, though I'd imagine having ~500 councils all maintaining employment & income records, operating their own PAYE system etc, is going to end up costing more in admin than you raise I dunno how different countries with local income tax handle it, but here I think the national tax system just passes down the total income to the local authority and they just calculate it off that. Simplifying the tax system might be good, but if they've locked themselves in to not raising any of the main taxes then the only way they can change things is to tweak or add to the other ones. the other advantage of Local income tax or a social care component to NI is it'd make it harder for future governments to just withhold funding. Having local authorities funded through national income tax would probably be more efficient, but it relies on the central government not just suddenly deciding to reduce how much they give to local governments.. as they did. |
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Jul 17, 2024 7:04:41 GMT
They could fix a decent proportion of care home overcrowding by allowing assisted suicide. A lot of people don't want to watch their entire life's work be eaten up caring for them when they aren't well enough to do it for themselves. I forgot one would much rather be allowed to die than rely on others to care for me whilst I watch my house that I have worked my entire life to pay for gets eaten up by it.
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Post by Chopsen on Jul 17, 2024 7:28:55 GMT
Never gonna happen.
UK gen pop are way too icky about getting old and dying generally for that to be discussed in a grown up manner. Part of the problem with the care home sector is that it's hidden away as a dirty secret that nobody wants to discuss the realities of what advanced dementia and severe frailty actually means in reality, and it gets hidden out of public view. We don't what to be anywhere near that as a society. It's a form of denial.
There's also a strong religious element that kicks up a stink about it that seems to get significant political traction whenever the issue comes up. The "Liverpool Care Pathway" got absolutely hammer and then shelved, despite the fact that it really just objectively spelled out what current normal practice for palliative care is. However, make it explicit and certain people lose their minds.
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minimatt
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hyper mediocrity
Posts: 1,693
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Post by minimatt on Jul 17, 2024 8:50:07 GMT
i blow hot and cold on assisted suicide, instinctively i'm very pro, but very open to argument and i'm currently quite anti.
main one is that sure, i'd rather die than suffer in agony, but that's a false binary - what i'd really like is top notch end of life care, not suffer at all and not impose any burdens on my loved ones while i slip off peacefully to the warm embrace of the boiling hell which surely awaits me due to all my terrible posts.
it's not so much that the state will end up forcing people to kill themselves but if anyone's tried to claim any benefits in the last fourteen years you'll easily envisage a future where there's six months of form filling and appeals to arrange someone to come round once a day for half an hour to help you get on with life, but here - fill in this form and we'll get you decision on a fatal dose of morphine whithin a week.
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robthehermit
Junior Member
Subjectively amusing
Posts: 2,468
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Post by robthehermit on Jul 17, 2024 8:59:05 GMT
I don't understand why assisted suicide isn't a thing when they "make patients comfortable" in hospitals on a daily basis.
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Post by gamingdave on Jul 17, 2024 9:00:08 GMT
the other advantage of Local income tax or a social care component to NI is it'd make it harder for future governments to just withhold funding. Having local authorities funded through national income tax would probably be more efficient, but it relies on the central government not just suddenly deciding to reduce how much they give to local governments.. as they did. A problem with local income tax being used to fund social care, is that different areas of the country aren't evenly populated by age - it could work where there is a high percentage of workers to retired people, but not when it is the other way round. People who move in retirement will have paid into one pot, and then draw back from another too. (of course it's not just elderly people who need social care, but it's a big (and increasing) component) I do agree social care is a mess though, and any ideas are worth exploring. |
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 17, 2024 9:13:20 GMT
I was thinking the local income tax would be more for general local government funding, and then the NI component would be for social care, for that very reason. That and moving social care away from local government responsibility and into the NHS system.
You still have the same issue with different regions for local government funding, which is why I only put it at 50% with the council tax. Nationally distributed income tax would be better, but as I said, I don't trust central governments not to cut it to make ends meet.
Social care, maybe add 1% to national insurance for those over 30, rising to 2% for those over 40, etc..
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Post by Jambowayoh on Jul 17, 2024 12:36:07 GMT
It's really weird going through the King's Speech to realise how many things were promised by Sunak's cabinet but never actually fulfilled due to them just purposely being a lame duck government obsessed with party politics, culture war bullshit and endless posturing.
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askew
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Post by askew on Jul 17, 2024 13:35:41 GMT
They failed to meet their OKRs and should have been sacked without needing an election.
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Post by simple on Jul 17, 2024 14:36:20 GMT
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mcmonkeyplc
Junior Member
General Martok Qapla!
Posts: 3,093
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Jul 17, 2024 15:13:35 GMT
That is disgusting  |
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Post by simple on Jul 17, 2024 15:52:24 GMT
440 initially lost with 118 still unaccounted for.
440 would be the equivalent of half of the secondary school I went to. 118 is bigger than the primary/junior school I attended.
And these arenāt new-new revelations, this report is new but the Home Office placing children at risk and losing them has been public knowledge for years. Only the government didnāt give a shit.
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mcmonkeyplc
Junior Member
General Martok Qapla!
Posts: 3,093
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Jul 17, 2024 16:07:28 GMT
The evil cunts probably thought it acted as a deterrent  |
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Post by mothercruncher on Jul 17, 2024 17:25:53 GMT
Ending things *is* assisted all the time, by administering heavy pain relief and, effectively, stopping the fight in a personās body and hastening it shutting down. Itās not talked about, for obvious reasons, but Iāve seen it first hand.
But that comes at the hands of a medical professional so thereās some safeguarding built in there.
Personally, as someone who has chronic pain, Iād like the option down the line myself but I can totally see how in cases of mental illness, for example, consent can be really tricky.
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Post by Chopsen on Jul 17, 2024 17:50:51 GMT
Yeah, was *literally* just going refer to that in response to minimatt 's post upthread.
It's called the Dual Effect Doctrine. It's the established legal precedent that if the risk of the dose of medicine administered possibly leads to the hastening of someone's death, it should not be a reason to not give it, if that medicine at that dose is what is necessary to the alleviate symptoms in someone who is otherwise dying. Or to put it another way, you can receive fatal doses of medication in the end stages of life if that is what's needed to relieve your suffering.
The usual context of this is someone dying from cancer who has progressive worsening pain, where there is a gradual titration upwards or morphine or similar.
Pragmatically, it euthanasia in all but name. But due to the legal requirements borne from the social need to be euphemistic about it, it can only be used in a narrow (but common) context of helping avoid suffering people dying from cancer in severe pain. If, say, you've got a neurodegenerative terminal problem like motor neurone disease, or CJD, or very very commonly just normal dementia: you're shit out of luck. Sit there and suffer because the God Squad says so.
Formally having an explicit assisted suicide/euthanasia pathway on a statutory basis would allow a more equitable and transparent approach on this.
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Frog
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Post by Frog on Jul 17, 2024 18:37:58 GMT
It's also administered way too late after a person has suffered needlessly.
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askew
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Post by askew on Jul 17, 2024 18:58:56 GMT
There was a recent documentary with Liz Carr on the subject. I can see where she's coming from, but I don't think it's because I'm scared of disability that I would like to have the choice to die on my own terms. If I discover I've got something terminal, I would like to establish my boundaries. |
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Post by Chopsen on Jul 17, 2024 19:50:02 GMT
What was the tl; dw?
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Tomo
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Post by Tomo on Jul 17, 2024 20:01:54 GMT
Having witnessed the long, drawn out degeneration of three of my grandparents with dementia and Alzheimer's, of which there is no cure, I am fully in favour of assisted suicide. I'm going straight to Dignitas once I'm diagnosed with that shit. Absolutely horrendous.
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Ulythium
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Lily-livered
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Member is Online
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Post by Ulythium on Jul 17, 2024 20:17:02 GMT
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Post by Whizzo on Jul 17, 2024 20:31:21 GMT
It hardly matters now, the bill will forever be associated with her for all time as something to prevent another Truss Event, she thinks she's had a victory getting them to change it because she's an idiot.
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Post by elstoof on Jul 17, 2024 20:50:59 GMT
She only compained so she can use it as evidence of the woke communism has infiltrated the visible surface of deep state, but luckily her book explains how we can avoid being infected
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Post by mothercruncher on Jul 17, 2024 21:01:07 GMT
She continue to be the gift that keeps on taking.
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Post by Danno on Jul 17, 2024 21:34:18 GMT
Her efforts to segue into the far right are genuinely hilarious, given her "efforts" as a Lib Dem, then one of Cameron's "babes" [shudder], a small c Conservative, a remainer, then a leaver, then a headbanger, and then "A HEADBANGER IN CHARGE BECAUSE NO THANK YOU BROWN PERSON" - all weird and pathetic and basically following the Bojo principle of 'whatever benefits me at this moment in time'
But she's absolutely stuck on a 256k modem in a really built up area and Gran needs to use the phone a lot because Agnes over the road has left her fucking bins out for two days and she had them Romanians there to tile her bathroom a few years back
Literally everyone on the far right is wondering "what the fuck is this ghoul in charge of a nervous system" and everyone else is chucking iceberg lettuce over the wall
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jul 17, 2024 22:16:07 GMT
She really strikes me as fundamentally not believing much and that she's confused by other humans. So just lurches to whatever seems to get her applause day to day.
Yknow like a stupid dog.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 18, 2024 1:37:59 GMT
German Trains worse than English ones?! www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckvgkgq9yeqoTbf, even though a lot of stuff in the UK has been run down over the past few years, I've always thought that the UK suffers a bit from being 'glass half empty' about everything, and generally moaning and being self deprecating too much. Everyone in the world knows UK food, trains, weather, etc.. are shit.. because British people and media keep telling them. Lots of other countries are probably equally shit, they just don't keep going on about it  PS/ Starmer's Red Revolution!!! www.bbc.com/news/articles/c10lrp8nzl8o |
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