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Post by Reviewer on Jul 12, 2024 13:02:58 GMT
Yeah considering supporting a party like that is a long way from actually voting, it also doesn’t say what the party would do about those things. Essentially it’s saying people would vote for the conservatives.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 12, 2024 13:09:10 GMT
I can't read the article, so I don't know how much detail it goes into with regard to different topics. But given the fuss over immigration I can easily imagine 37% of people supporting an anti-immigration party as a single issue, with the other topics being mostly ignored.
It would be nice if there are some follow up questions, like "Which LGBT rights do you think should be taken away?"
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Post by Duffking on Jul 12, 2024 13:23:03 GMT
This is an interesting and probably depressing payealled read: www.ft.com/content/03d480a8-ce31-4a4e-9727-18fb029f1c4a"A recent survey by FocalData found that 37 per cent of Britons would consider supporting a hypothetical party that believes immigration, LGBT+ rights and environmentalism have gone too far and that the country’s culture is under attack" All of Europe is in the 30-40% range, but we're top of the pops. Other countries all have far right parties that are way more effective at exploiting that voter base than occurs in the UK (unless you combine Reform and Tory, I think). Isn't this just the tories/reform already? |
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Post by Whizzo on Jul 12, 2024 13:26:37 GMT
It's an odd coincidence that the percentage of people who support that shit pretty much matches how much of the country are obviously fucking idiots. It's like there could be a link.
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Post by technoish on Jul 12, 2024 13:26:40 GMT
Like others I think there is more to untangle here. It's actually a really long question and it's not clear people would agree with all of it:
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And the figures exclude those who don't know (!) and those who did not vote.
Seeing as most of the country didn't vote, and the dont knows, 37% of britons is bogus stats.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jul 12, 2024 13:45:08 GMT
I suppose the bright side is that, despite the millions and millions of pounds spent to convince us otherwise, this country still skews centre left so all we really need to do is organise tactical strikes on the daily mail, the telegraph and geo block all Russian IP addresses.
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Post by anthonyuk on Jul 12, 2024 14:15:01 GMT
Does concern me how our news media or the media that has any influence leans heavily to the right, while even social media promotes the most extreme right wing views and behaviour to even children purely down to chasing views.
Between the BBC holding Reform aloft at any opportunity and Farage and Co posting regularly to social media.. There seems to be absolutely zero on the left or centre ground to balance this out.
Farage reminds me of Johnson, in that like the EU he's created a problem all of his own making to line his own pockets.
The dreaded boats are less than 2% of all immigrants coming into the UK. Post Brexit, after the UK became toxic for EU nationals a combination of an aging population, growing ecomony and lack of workers meant the government had to increase immigration to both fill holes in the labour market, while chasing younger workers to pay tax. Contributing towards such things as people's pensions.
This perceived erosion of the mythical "British culture" because of people's skin colour is because the country had to look to Africa and Asia to plug the holes Brexit caused.
I wish this could be spelled out to the racists who voted for Brexit in the first place. Surely "immigration is needed for you to be cared for protect your pensions" isn't to hard a message to sell.
Farage I dismiss as a conman at best, but the first time he's made the idea of a possibile fascist government in the UK a genuine worry
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Chopsen
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Post by Chopsen on Jul 12, 2024 14:46:08 GMT
Well, yes to all that, but Farage is a slippery one. On the one hand, you don't want to give him too much credit and legitimacy as a threat, as these things can be self fulfilling. On the other, you don't want ignore him and think he's chances of securing formal political power are hopeless, because as has been proven: denial doesn't manifest reality (e.g. Trump).
The article I linked wasn't making the point that "ooh aren't we terrible" btw. It was pointing out that despite our electorate having a similar attitude to a hypothetical nativist reactionary party being similar to other continental nations, how come that doesn't translate in to actual votes for a party that campaigns on that. At the extreme, Le Pen (despite not quite hitting expectations due to shenanigans from the other parties) getting 33% of the popular vote on 34% percent on the polling expressing support based on the question posed, while in the UK Reform get 14% of the popular vote despite 37% on the same poll for UK voters.
Or in other words: what is stopping Farage cleaning up? Our current govt got a massive majority with 33% of the popular vote.
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otto
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Post by otto on Jul 12, 2024 17:15:32 GMT
Or in other words: what is stopping Farage cleaning up? Our current govt got a massive majority with 33% of the popular vote. With a very few notable exceptions, you’ll never find a constituency where there’s a plurality who are thick racists. Very hard for the fash to win lots of constituencies under FPTP, even if they’re in the 30%+ range. |
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Jul 12, 2024 17:15:53 GMT
You’d like to think that Brexit has at least slightly inoculated us against being sold more Monorails again. Even if you agreed with him about migration you would hope people know he would do nothing about it or anything about any other issue you cared about.
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mcmonkeyplc
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Post by mcmonkeyplc on Jul 12, 2024 18:08:42 GMT
I'm hoping Brexit was our peak right wing populist moment. It's hopefully shown most people that populism is a load of shit and doesn't work for them.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Jul 12, 2024 18:31:04 GMT
You’d like to think that Brexit has at least slightly inoculated us against being sold more Monorails again. Even if you agreed with him about migration you would hope people know he would do nothing about it or anything about any other issue you cared about. The monorail would have been fine if the right people had built the right monorail. |
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jul 12, 2024 18:34:51 GMT
Eh it's all a bit overblown.
Reform got roughly the going average for morons in the UK
2010: UKIP + BNP ~ 5%
2015: UKIP 12.6%
2017: UKIP 1.8% with Paul Nuttell.
2019: Brexit Party 2.01% where they stood down their MPs in any seat with a Brexiteer Tory
2024: Reform 14.29%
So basically since David Cameron around 12-14% of cunts have voted for these cunts. 2019 they voted for Boris, 2017 they voted for May as it was still the "Hard brexit" version of that. But 2015 and 2024 when Farage just had a free run at it, he's gained maybe 1% of voters in 9 years.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Jul 12, 2024 18:47:49 GMT
Don't bring facts into this.
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Blue_Mike
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Post by Blue_Mike on Jul 12, 2024 21:00:32 GMT
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Post by Danno on Jul 12, 2024 21:02:25 GMT
It's fucking JULY Rory
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Blue_Mike
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Post by Blue_Mike on Jul 12, 2024 21:04:53 GMT
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Post by Danno on Jul 12, 2024 21:07:00 GMT
*Shoots directly into the floor with his shrivelled Tory dick, gets eighteen blasts to the heart in return* |
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Jul 12, 2024 22:27:36 GMT
This time greed shot first.
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zephro
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Post by zephro on Jul 12, 2024 23:33:51 GMT
I seem to remember Angela went on the podcast back in December/January, it's a bit of a necro-tweet. |
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Post by Danno on Jul 12, 2024 23:36:54 GMT
I seem to remember Angela went on the podcast back in December/January, it's a bit of a necro-tweet. /salute to you for listening to that. YOU'RE INDOORS RORY |
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Post by Whizzo on Jul 13, 2024 1:39:41 GMT
The one on the right looks like someone who just left court after he managed to get found not guilty of a crime he definitely committed. Close enough.
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askew
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Post by askew on Jul 13, 2024 7:38:51 GMT
The party is named Reform. It's one of those ways of getting people integrated into the community again.
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Post by simple on Jul 13, 2024 8:35:36 GMT
The guy is a fan of the radical centre. July summer, coat winter; together comprise. |
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 17, 2024 2:37:01 GMT
Five big problems the Starmer government has to fix www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1e5pw1qpx8oand that's not even including the issues of social care, etc.. and the boats thing that the express will keep banging on about. Seems like they should radically alter the way local governments are funded, and the way social care is managed and funded. If they could do that it'd buy a lot of breathing room for other stuff. Did their tax promises include Council Tax and National Insurance? |
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minimatt
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Post by minimatt on Jul 17, 2024 4:13:31 GMT
they tried to avoid committing one way or the other on council tax, but I think toward the end they said there'd be no reassessment which is fucking daft given the bandings are still on 1990s property prices.
that said, other than some unwritten vague agreement that the lords won't unduly delay stuff that was in a manifesto (and feel more empowered to scrutinise stuff which isn't) i don't think a whole lot more than vibes can be inferred from manifestos these days. the express will always shriek regardless
i'm old enough to remember boris johnson and theresa may each promising to fix social care. i'm not sure, but i think i remember tony blair promising it too. die before you need it is the plan for gen x and down
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Post by Bill in the rain on Jul 17, 2024 4:42:56 GMT
I can't see how anyone is gonna fix the NHS without addressing the social care elephant though. Other than implementing a cull of all gen x people at a certain age.
My genius plan that I've come up with this moment and I'm sure has no glaringly obvious downsides that I haven't thought of:
- Keep council tax 'as-is' for now and add in a local income tax. Start it at 90:10 and then increase the income part and decrease the council tax part each year until it's about 50:50. Though slightly increased overall to address local government funding.
- Take all elderly social care into the NHS so it can be managed in a coordinated way with healthcare, also freeing up Local Governments who I think are paying for a lot of this stuff now(?) .
- Add a Social Care Insurance element to National Insurance. Maybe starting very low and increasing with age. Maybe set up some tax-efficient ISA-styled optional version as well.
Some kind of wealth tax on shares seems fundamental to addressing widening inequality as well, but it appears to be very difficult to actually implement.
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minimatt
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Post by minimatt on Jul 17, 2024 5:05:43 GMT
certainly sounds more progressive, though I'd imagine having ~500 councils all maintaining employment & income records, operating their own PAYE system etc, is going to end up costing more in admin than you raise
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Post by Dougs on Jul 17, 2024 5:55:20 GMT
Social care is definitely a mess. The communication between the NHS and local authority is often poor but the biggest issue is how care homes have been allowed to become private, profit making businesses. There aren't enough spaces as there's a lack of long term thinking so they can charge what they want, which just screws local authorities.
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Post by brokenkey on Jul 17, 2024 6:00:59 GMT
How do countries without a health service deal with social care? Eg the USA?
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