Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 3,530
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Apr 22, 2024 13:49:58 GMT
Dear Mr Sunak: No one gives a fuck you thick cunt. Yeah, this is my current hot take on this. I think Sunak would have been better off electorally if he'd just let the Rwanda bill die in the lords. Every time it's mentioned now all it does is draw attention to how shit they are at getting this legislation through, and remind everybody that immigration is higher despite them saying it was a priority. They've intentionally set the agenda to something they're shit at. It’s the same with all the immigration stuff. They made such a big deal of it, riling everyone up that the nation is being invaded and being so shit that they turn to reform to sort it out. I think it was the Tamworth by election where all the box pops mentioned small boats and how fucking useless the tories have been at stopping them.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Apr 22, 2024 13:53:07 GMT
Yeah private companies are always going to have add a profit margin on top of costs and will have much higher borrowing costs than government. I find it hard to square the finances. By all means they should let other operators run on the same lines... But tbh every time the east coast line reverted to being state run it immediately improved... The competition is what's supposed to offset that, but that doesn't work when you essentially have regional monopolies.
Ticket costs are generally waaaay lower here, train companies make big profits, service is much better, etc.. but that's because of the way its set up and the competition, plus other factors like population density and companies having a lot more power vs the little people.
But it's also due to the mindset. They're continually expanding the high speed rail network, and it's seen as a huge boost to the local area, rather than people just moaning about it like HS2. They already have bullet trains, but they keep introducing newer fast ones almost every year.
They also treat it very much as a business. If the train company owns the tracks, they also own the stations all along the tracks, which they can rent out to dozens of shops and restaurants in each station, and they own the department stores that they built along their line, and the golf courses that they built along their line, and the ice-rinks and sports stadiums that they built along their line, and the towns and residential areas that they built along their line, etc...
The people living along their line are their customers, so they want to have as many as possible, and get profit out of them in as many ways as possible. All of which probably subsidises ticket costs in some way.
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Post by Vandelay on Apr 22, 2024 14:05:14 GMT
If Sunak had any sense, he would have run a mile from this policy at the first opportunity he had. The correct game plan was to ditch it when the High Court said it would be unlawful and put all the blame on the recently departed Braverman (if he wanted to get dirty, maybe he could have got some newspapers to dig into how much of a lawyer she really was to make these legal judgements on how lawful it would have been). Instead though, he doubled down on it.
I suspect now the plan is to get flights going regularly, so that when Labour inevitable stop them they can't do so quietly. If it is just 1 or 2 that have gone then it would be much easier for them to just disappear.
Of course, this all rides on them not having a complete disaster at the local elections end of next week and Sunak not being given the push. If there is a leadership challenge, I assume he will just call an election and that would likely be before any flights happen. I suspect the gauge on whether he survives or not will be the West Midlands and Tees Valley mayoral elections. They will try to paint it as a victory night if they hold those (even though the mayor of West Midlands hates Sunak).
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Rich
Junior Member
Posts: 1,816
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Post by Rich on Apr 22, 2024 14:12:18 GMT
If it is just 1 or 2 that have gone then it would be much easier for them to just disappear. I think just one or two before Labour kill it is the aim here. If too many happen people might start to ask why the boats are still coming. With only a couple taking off, the Tories can cry that Labour never gave it a chance to be the massive success it obviously would have been.
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Zyrr
New Member
Posts: 680
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Post by Zyrr on Apr 22, 2024 14:13:59 GMT
At this point I'm convinced he needs the Rwanda bill to pass so that the first flight can be blocked by the ECHR. He'll then call an election on the promise of a referendum on leaving the ECHR to prevent foreign courts meddling in our affairs and the client media will drum up the appropriate levels of outrage.
(Of course, it would also open up UK citizens to be horribly exploited by their employer, but that would *never* happen, would it? 👀)
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Whizzo
Full Member
Wanting to return to square one
Posts: 8,434
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Post by Whizzo on Apr 22, 2024 14:20:58 GMT
No matter what the fuckwit Tories say we are not leaving the ECHR, not only did the Good Friday Agreement depend on the UK being members it's a cornerstone of the country being trusted not to be a rogue state like the two former Council of Europe members.
It's fucking ridiculous and anyone who suggests it should have rotten fruit and veg thrown at them while in stocks on Parliament Green.
Rwanda is a policy that is expensive and won't work, so just like Brexit.
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Post by Vandelay on Apr 22, 2024 14:31:47 GMT
If it is just 1 or 2 that have gone then it would be much easier for them to just disappear. I think just one or two before Labour kill it is the aim here. If too many happen people might start to ask why the boats are still coming. With only a couple taking off, the Tories can cry that Labour never gave it a chance to be the massive success it obviously would have been. Possibly. I can see the logic in both (although, actually stopping the boats for most of those that support the policy is irrelevant compared to the performative cruelty of the whole thing). Either way, he wants a plane to go before Labour take over. As for leaving the ECHR, I've heard it said that many supporters of leaving don't want it on the manifesto. They know they will lose and they don't want it to be part of a losing manifesto and for that to be an excuse for it to be buried for generation. I assume the plan will be to hold fire on that and then to stick it on the manifesto in 2029, possibly as a referendum (at least, the plan for the fuckwits that go on about it - it actually happening is another matter and all depends on who takes over after Sunak).
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Post by Trowel 🏴 on Apr 22, 2024 16:27:56 GMT
Great thread of the colourful postings of Keir Starmer's cousin - everyone has one in the family eh.
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X201
Junior Member
Posts: 4,037
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Post by X201 on Apr 22, 2024 17:08:23 GMT
No matter what the fuckwit Tories say we are not leaving the ECHR, not only did the Good Friday Agreement depend on the UK being members it's a cornerstone of the country being trusted not to be a rogue state like the two former Council of Europe members. It's fucking ridiculous and anyone who suggests it should have rotten fruit and veg thrown at them while in stocks on Parliament Green. Rwanda is a policy that is expensive and won't work, so just like Brexit. 2029 Tory electioneering. The Rawanda law was a good law and would had stopped all illegal immigration if only Labour had used it properly.
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Post by technoish on Apr 22, 2024 18:14:41 GMT
Tbh I kind of want the thing to be enacted, for 50 people to be carted off to Rwanda, only for them all to disappear / make their back to the UK, and for there to be zero impact on small boats.
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Post by Chopsen on Apr 22, 2024 18:46:12 GMT
If Sunak had any sense, he would have run a mile from this policy at the first opportunity he had. The correct game plan was to ditch it when the High Court said it would be unlawful and put all the blame on the recently departed Braverman (if he wanted to get dirty, maybe he could have got some newspapers to dig into how much of a lawyer she really was to make these legal judgements on how lawful it would have been). Instead though, he doubled down on it. I suspect now the plan is to get flights going regularly, so that when Labour inevitable stop them they can't do so quietly. If it is just 1 or 2 that have gone then it would be much easier for them to just disappear. Of course, this all rides on them not having a complete disaster at the local elections end of next week and Sunak not being given the push. If there is a leadership challenge, I assume he will just call an election and that would likely be before any flights happen. I suspect the gauge on whether he survives or not will be the West Midlands and Tees Valley mayoral elections. They will try to paint it as a victory night if they hold those (even though the mayor of West Midlands hates Sunak). For reasons, Sunak decided he needed Braverman on side, along with the rest of the Right wing of the party. There's an alternative timeline where he went "eh, you people are fucking nuts", used Truss' failure as a pivot point and just took a moderate centrist path.
I read some polling analysis the other day that suggested that if the Tories took 7% of Labour's vote nationally, they would deny Labour a majority. If however they took 7% off Reform, labour still get an outright majority. They're in this mess because they listened to a loud minority.
The fundamental problem they have is that they have swung too far to the right and completely disenfranchised the centre-right.
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Post by grizzly on Apr 22, 2024 18:48:22 GMT
The most heinous part of this whole thing is how it correlates with the resurgence of the March 23 movement in Congo. Human Rights Watch critiqued the UK for this a year ago. To me, it very much seems like Rwanda is exploiting the Tories in order to get some cover for their own proxy war bullshit.
Which y'know, I know the tories don't care, but even if you live in that deeply rotten mindset that the far right tories seem to live in, supporting the very country that's gonna be responsible for the next refugee crisis seems self-defeating.
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zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 2,358
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Post by zephro on Apr 22, 2024 18:53:21 GMT
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Blue_Mike
Junior Member
Meet Hanako At Embers
Posts: 3,996
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Post by Blue_Mike on Apr 22, 2024 18:59:42 GMT
ITV drama by this time next year.
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Post by Chopsen on Apr 22, 2024 19:03:47 GMT
Next you'll be telling me that importing talking points from US politics wholesale doesn't win people over in a completely different country. As ever, I blame twitter.
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Whizzo
Full Member
Wanting to return to square one
Posts: 8,434
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Post by Whizzo on Apr 22, 2024 19:05:59 GMT
Mr Cash was director of Tory MPs’ China Research Group
It does exactly what it says on the tin, just the opposite of what they thought.
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Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 3,530
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Apr 22, 2024 19:35:57 GMT
Espionage….. tick…… so they have just six months left to murder someone for the full set
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Post by grizzly on Apr 22, 2024 19:36:31 GMT
As ever, I blame twitter.
I still can't believe how much of our political discourse seems motivated entirely by that one platform.
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zephro
Junior Member
Posts: 2,358
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Post by zephro on Apr 22, 2024 20:45:17 GMT
Next you'll be telling me that importing talking points from US politics wholesale doesn't win people over in a completely different country. As ever, I blame twitter. I mean Facebook, TikTok, Reddit, fuck it MySpace... But yeah the internet seemingly has caused all English speaking political chat on the internet to revert, or at least be pulled into the orbit of the US. Bet it's just as bad in Australia. Does anyone remember anyone in Britain referring to millennials before 2010? As I remember the 90s and watching Waynes World/Beavis and Butthead/Dario and that was Gen X, but also Gen X was like an American thing. You never thought of Blur, or Oasis or Pulp as Gen X at all.
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Whizzo
Full Member
Wanting to return to square one
Posts: 8,434
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Post by Whizzo on Apr 22, 2024 20:46:14 GMT
Facebook is possibly the only social media platform that's been implicated in causing genocide.
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Post by Dougs on Apr 22, 2024 21:00:08 GMT
They are all a cesspool. Twitter is unusable for any kind of conversation because of bots and engagement farmers, before you even get to the nasty shit. Facey just pushes groups and crap pages at you whether you want it or not. For some, they must see some awful shit. Insta and Tik Tok are destroying everyone's attention span. The whole lot need to FOAD
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Post by Chopsen on Apr 22, 2024 21:31:38 GMT
Web forums though? They're ace.
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Post by stuz359 on Apr 22, 2024 22:15:00 GMT
Next you'll be telling me that importing talking points from US politics wholesale doesn't win people over in a completely different country. As ever, I blame twitter. I mean Facebook, TikTok, Reddit, fuck it MySpace... But yeah the internet seemingly has caused all English speaking political chat on the internet to revert, or at least be pulled into the orbit of the US. Bet it's just as bad in Australia. Does anyone remember anyone in Britain referring to millennials before 2010? As I remember the 90s and watching Waynes World/Beavis and Butthead/Dario and that was Gen X, but also Gen X was like an American thing. You never thought of Blur, or Oasis or Pulp as Gen X at all. I remember the 90's, though I'm what's referred to as a geriatric Millennial.
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Post by Danno on Apr 22, 2024 23:06:48 GMT
Web forums though? They're ace. Iirc we solved trans people in sport in an afternoon (with time to spare for a celebratory packet of nik naks). So big yes from me.
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X201
Junior Member
Posts: 4,037
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Post by X201 on Apr 23, 2024 6:45:31 GMT
BBC showing live pictures of ‘small boat’ leaving France and heading for Britain.
Tomorrow’s Daily Mail: BBC Fails to Defend U.K. Border From Illegals
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Post by Vandelay on Apr 23, 2024 7:38:08 GMT
Web forums though? They're ace. I can't remember the name of it (think I was linked to it from here), but there was a YouTube video looking at the history of human communities and how the Internet is the antithesis of how we have always formed them. The solution they suggested was a return to smaller Internet communities of the early 2000s, such as Geocities and forums. So, yeah, forums are the best!
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Post by drhickman1983 on Apr 23, 2024 7:41:59 GMT
FG should be held up as a model web society.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Apr 23, 2024 8:01:49 GMT
It's an interesting thought, as the 'bubblification' of news and discourse has been cited as one of the causes of a lot of the problems with social media. But smaller communities are already bubbles by default. FG should be held up as a model web society. The list of exiled citizens is getting quite long though. Doomed forever to wander in the Cursed Earth outside the walls.
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Post by Danno on Apr 23, 2024 8:19:02 GMT
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Post by peekconfusion on Apr 23, 2024 8:23:19 GMT
I wouldn't have believed that the same government that strips a carer's benefits away for a few extra shifts would also be spending over a million pounds per person to ship them to Rwanda, yet here we are.
I can't wait to see the back of these pricks.
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