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Post by Resident Knievel on May 24, 2022 19:38:05 GMT
I don’t want to harp on about it but I think that’s a particularly naive take on it given most of the current issues that gets highlighted are specific pushbacks and responses to progress that has already occurred rather than just being out of touch and behind the times. Counter-culture works both ways. I'd argue its naive not to see the danger in having vocal minorities dictate what is right or wrong. Whether those minorities sit on the left or the right. Yeah, the vocal minority of tired comedians shouldn't dictate what's right and wrong
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Post by Honk If You're Horny? on May 24, 2022 19:39:01 GMT
Ack I keep getting a 520 error which cuts my replies off before I finish.
I don't know that I accept his comedy contributes or incites violence towards trans people.
Edit I can only speak about Chappelle I haven't seen the Gervais one.
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Post by Sarfrin on May 24, 2022 19:41:31 GMT
So if he made the same jokes but only got paid £3000 instead of £3m it would be better? No, he'd still be a cunt. He can say what he likes but he can't expect to be universally praised for it and whining about cancel culture while being paid millions is clearly cynical nonsense.
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Post by Honk If You're Horny? on May 24, 2022 19:53:50 GMT
That's a different argument. That the punishment isn't severe enough.
The idea that say a JK Rowling or Chapelle still have millions and an opinion seems to aggravate people.
Unless cancellation results in bankruptcy and a total ban from any platform it's seen as harmless.
Yet there is reputational damage, financial loss, death threats, harassment and being physically assaulted.
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Post by Jambowayoh on May 24, 2022 19:57:25 GMT
No I think people seem to be aggravated that these people you've mentioned seem to believe that their success and wealth allows them insulation from criticism and become genuinely shocked that not everyone is bowing down and telling them how great they are.
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Post by Resident Knievel on May 24, 2022 19:58:00 GMT
Yet there is reputational damage, financial loss, death threats, harassment and being physically assaulted. You're describing what happens when someone comes out as trans, right?
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Post by 😎 on May 24, 2022 19:58:26 GMT
I feel so bad for those poor darlings.
Meanwhile we’re not a week out from a mass shooting inspired by the rise of “great replacement” theory being propagated from the exact same groups whining about being “cancelled”
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Post by Honk If You're Horny? on May 24, 2022 20:02:59 GMT
Oh come on.
Jo Cox or David Arness being stabbed to death because of their politics is obscene and tragic.
Someone getting on to the stage intending to assault Chappelle carrying a knife is "poor darlings" getting rape and death threats is "poor darlings"?
Some double standards there.
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Post by 😎 on May 24, 2022 20:05:12 GMT
It’s the “consequences” you were so in favor of earlier I guess.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on May 24, 2022 20:08:39 GMT
So if he made the same jokes but only got paid £3000 instead of £3m it would be better? No, he'd still be a cunt. He can say what he likes but he can't expect to be universally praised for it and whining about cancel culture while being paid millions is clearly cynical nonsense. Exactly this. There’s no specific written rules to this forum or contract that I’ve signed to post her, but if I verbally badger and bully someone but put a smiley in each post, until they quit, I can expect there to be consequences, at least a pushback and maybe (hopefully) a ban. Have I been cancelled, or am I facing the consequences of being a cunt in public? Just because the platform is different and they’re getting paid for it makes no difference. There’s a pretty clear line between actually being funny and just being a cunt, swinging for the low hanging fruit because it reaches a particular cause celebre and you’re desperate to stay relevant and keep getting pay cheques. This pathetic whining about having to face consequences of things you say and do as being part of the culture war that’s currently being waged by certain folks might be funny if they weren’t absolutely, deadly serious about restricting the rights and sometimes existence of a whole lot of people, often by violent means. I don’t see how so-called cancel culture is worse, or even close to letting genuinely dangerous bigotry be legitmised for the sake of comedy. Gervais can do better or he can fuck off. Personally, I know which I’d prefer.
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Post by Honk If You're Horny? on May 24, 2022 20:09:14 GMT
In one post you're lamenting the violence directed towards the trans community in the next you're completely dismissive of it towards other individuals.
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Post by Danno on May 24, 2022 20:10:05 GMT
Can we all agree that objectively Gervais stopped being funny a long time ago and has now fulfilled that prophecy of all big comedians who become the very thing they initially used to mock and are the living embodiment of the Principal Skinner meme from the Simpsons? I saw the joke it's terrible, not particularly from the trans baiting but just how fucking lazy it is. I guess that's why Netflix paid him the money it did because outrage. Cunt. Gervais' entire career has revolved around laughing at others, it's just he found it too "challenging" to bother to find valid targets once he was successful. It's been quite plain in everything he's done since Extras. He's always been scum. Not having a go at you Jambo.
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Post by Danno on May 24, 2022 20:12:50 GMT
Ack I keep getting a 520 error which cuts my replies off before I finish. I don't know that I accept his comedy contributes or incites violence towards trans people. It absolutely does, by 'othering' people that should just be allowed to go about their lives without a multimillionaire writer turned comedian using his multimillion pound special to ridicule and other them yet further Again, can we tap the James Acaster sign yet. You're fucking mental if you think this is harmless or will work its way through the system without harm, especially in this day and age.
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Post by 😎 on May 24, 2022 20:12:59 GMT
I’m not dismissive of it in itself, I’m dismissive of the comparison. Minorities are threatened and assaulted (or worse) due to the audacity of existing and wanting equal rights. The celebrities and comedians are threatened and assaulted because they said shitty things. They’re not comparable situations in the slightest.
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Post by Honk If You're Horny? on May 24, 2022 20:14:53 GMT
Ah right.
Serves them right I guess.
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Post by 😎 on May 24, 2022 20:22:20 GMT
I mean, kind of? I don’t advocate or agree with the physical violence but I’m not sure I give a shit about bigots getting abuse over Twitter for holding or espousing abhorrent views. Unless you think that someone should tell them what they are and aren’t allowed to say, anyway.
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Post by Honk If You're Horny? on May 24, 2022 20:26:52 GMT
By that logic someone like India Willoughby who says horrendous shit fairly regularly is fair game for being attacked?
I just don't buy into the idea that having an opinion or views on something like gender/sex or migration or any other hot topic in anyway validates being threatened or assaulted.
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Post by Sarfrin on May 24, 2022 20:30:44 GMT
That's a different argument. That the punishment isn't severe enough. The idea that say a JK Rowling or Chapelle still have millions and an opinion seems to aggravate people. Unless cancellation results in bankruptcy and a total ban from any platform it's seen as harmless. Yet there is reputational damage, financial loss, death threats, harassment and being physically assaulted. It's the idea that they still have tens or hundreds of millions and are complaining of being hard done by. There is no 'punishment'. Not compared to the lives of the people they (and their legions of followers) target.
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Post by 😎 on May 24, 2022 20:34:21 GMT
I mean, “attacked” is pretty vague here, but if it amounts to she said some horrible things and people told her to shut the fuck up about it, sure, I wouldn’t lose sleep about it.
I wouldn’t condone physical violence and so on about it though. Nor would I condone using it as a pivot point to use her gender identity as an attack vector for a retort.
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hedben
Junior Member
Formerly: hedben2013
Posts: 1,983
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Post by hedben on May 24, 2022 21:20:30 GMT
It’s the punching Nazis debate.
A lot of people are fine with Nazis getting punched when they wear swastikas or espouse their Nazi views in public, with the justification of “if you let one of them get away with it today, they’ll bring their 10 Nazi mates tomorrow”. Obviously there’s some distance between Gervais being bigoted about trans people on his million dollar wankfest and being an actual fucking Nazi, but it’s still the thinner end of the same wedge.
If you preach intolerance against a minority group, I’m pretty ok with you risking a punch from an audience member who can’t abide your bullshit. And you can’t both-sides the issue and say “yeah but then you’re saying it’s fine for the Nazi to punch you because of your views that they disagree with”. When the opposing viewpoints are a group having a right to exist vs. no-they-don’t, I’m ok with punches being ok for one but not the other.
Edit- sorry if I Godwin’d the thread but it’s true
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Post by Danno on May 24, 2022 21:51:13 GMT
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on May 24, 2022 22:10:54 GMT
I prefer mockery and humiliation as a response to Nazis being Nazis. Much better than punching.
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Post by Danno on May 24, 2022 22:14:21 GMT
No. Punch them
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Post by 😎 on May 24, 2022 22:20:11 GMT
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Post by Vandelay on May 24, 2022 22:20:41 GMT
I'm confused where anyone said that they are fine with death threats and physical violence against Gervais, Chapelle and JK. Seems to be a very selective reading of the word "consequences".
People are perfectly entitled when they see celebrities punching down about people of colour or those that identify as LGBTQ+ to respond. That response can be anything from sending them information about why they are wrong to telling them to fuck off to saying they won't give them money anymore. These are all legal things to do and the celebrity should accept that they may get those responses if they are going to spread their out dated or offensive opinions about.
What these snowflakes complain about when they say cancel culture isn't just the illegal things that you are claiming other people are endorsing.
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on May 24, 2022 22:57:51 GMT
I dunno, even if they deserve a punch (they probably do), it feels like using actual violence would make them into a martyr or a victim, wouldn't really change anything, and would get you arrested. All you'd get in return is the fleeting satisfaction of having punched a Nazi (which might be worth it tbf)
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Post by Dougs on May 25, 2022 5:26:34 GMT
Gervais has always punched down. I went to see him do a pilot show in the 90s, and it was disabled people who got the kicking then. It's anything for a cheap laugh and he doesn't care who he hurts or how it demeans him. He can be genuinely funny without all that but when he's struggling for ideas, back to giving minorities grief he goes.
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Post by drhickman1983 on May 25, 2022 6:35:26 GMT
In one post you're lamenting the violence directed towards the trans community in the next you're completely dismissive of it towards other individuals. I know I am. I wish to protect vulnerable groups of people, but also wish harm on those I dislike. I'm not a nice person. Frankly I'd be pleased if Gervais was punched in his smug face. I wouldn't harm him myself but if somebody punched him, it if he just tripped down the stairs and broke his neck, well, that would be pure schadenfreude.
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kal
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Posts: 8,309
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Post by kal on May 25, 2022 7:15:45 GMT
I don’t want to harp on about it but I think that’s a particularly naive take on it given most of the current issues that gets highlighted are specific pushbacks and responses to progress that has already occurred rather than just being out of touch and behind the times. Counter-culture works both ways. I'd argue its naive not to see the danger in having vocal minorities dictate what is right or wrong. Whether those minorities sit on the left or the right. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
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kal
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Post by kal on May 25, 2022 7:24:34 GMT
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