Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2021 11:20:32 GMT
RIP Sean x
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robthehermit
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Post by robthehermit on Nov 18, 2021 11:41:07 GMT
Of course I don't think race discrimination doesn't happen and yes it's a problem. And yes there are probably some companies out there who do break the law with regard to equal pay, but the equal pay argument is framed as women get paid less for the same work which is largely not true.
Take two shelf stackers in your supermarket of choice, one male, one female. They both get paid at exactly the same rate. Equal pay. Over the course of their employment the woman takes time off for having kids, works part time while they're young etc. So over the course of their lives the woman ends up earning 10% less than her male counterpart. This is where a large chunk of the disparity comes in and it has nothing to do with the rate of pay which is what a lot of people think the problem is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2021 11:46:11 GMT
Yeah. Using minimum wage as your example is not really relevant as it is... Well minimum wage. It is more around commission, bonuses, pay increases etc.
I know at least 3, well maybe 2 woman that did good and got jobs in offices bless them.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Nov 18, 2021 11:49:53 GMT
Of course I don't think race discrimination doesn't happen and yes it's a problem. And yes there are probably some companies out there who do break the law with regard to equal pay, but the equal pay argument is framed as women get paid less for the same work which is largely not true. Take two shelf stackers in your supermarket of choice, one male, one female. They both get paid at exactly the same rate. Equal pay. Over the course of their employment the woman takes time off for having kids, works part time while they're young etc. So over the course of their lives the woman ends up earning 10% less than her male counterpart. This is where a large chunk of the disparity comes in and it has nothing to do with the rate of pay which is what a lot of people think the problem is. Have you got some statistical analysis to back this up? Because there's been an awful lot of that done by professionals who would disagree with what you're saying here. And "most of the disparity" really doesn't come from what you're saying at all. e2a: www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/genderpaygapintheuk/2021
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JYM60
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Post by JYM60 on Nov 18, 2021 11:54:39 GMT
Supermarkets aren't minimum wage anymore btw. About at least 60p over min wage here.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 18, 2021 11:55:47 GMT
That example is exactly the disparity they are highlighting, though. Its *women* taking time off to have kids, its women taking time off to go to drs appointments, school meetings and all that. Its women who have several year breaks in their careers.
Over the course of their lives they earn less. Thats literally the point.
On my team I have woman who works part time until 2.30pm every day so she can pick the kids up. Her husband works full time. She is great and could get on if she wanted but she doesnt because of her domestic commitments. I have also worked with her husband and she is at least as capable has him if not moreso but over his life he will earn significantly more than her.
I mean, yeah, thats on him but whatever.
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Post by Reviewer on Nov 18, 2021 12:00:49 GMT
Exactly and that is a problem, if people were paid based on their output and quality of work then the disparity would change. They’d earn less during those periods when they are having to do school runs etc but when that’s all over 10-20 years later they should be on the same rate as an equivalent man.
Or society should encourage a role shift so men are as likely to take those roles as women.
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Post by 😎 on Nov 18, 2021 12:24:12 GMT
Even with the domestic role situation the pay ranges are unequal. I know plenty of women in tech and to a person they are all in way lower ranges and salary roles then their male coworkers, engineer 1 doing the work of engineer 3, men being auto-granted YOE for a higher place on the range but women having to painfully justify raises in line with inflation in their reviews. Get the fuck out of here with that “shelf stackers get the same” bullshit.
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Post by 😎 on Nov 18, 2021 12:26:09 GMT
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JYM60
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Post by JYM60 on Nov 18, 2021 12:29:11 GMT
Get the fuck out of here with that “shelf stackers get the same” bullshit. Filthy non skilled scum.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 18, 2021 12:37:07 GMT
Even with the domestic role situation the pay ranges are unequal. I know plenty of women in tech and to a person they are all in way lower ranges and salary roles then their male coworkers, engineer 1 doing the work of engineer 3, men being auto-granted YOE for a higher place on the range but women having to painfully justify raises in line with inflation in their reviews. Part of the ridiculous amount of training I have to do is for diversity in recruitment. Women will be put off by aggressively worded adverts asking for 'Go getting security engineers to punch hackers in their throats' and anything asking for a laundry list of requirements. The said that, iirc, if you put out a job advert with a list of 10 competencies, a woman is unlikely to apply if she hits less than 9/10 whereas a man will YOLO in an application if they tick off half of them. I was regularly getting job adverts knocked back from HR for being too butch (or, more accurately, me being lazy and just listing things rather than actually writing a description) until I learned to tone it down and verily did I get more women applying.
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Post by technoish on Nov 18, 2021 12:38:11 GMT
I see this directly in my team. Have recruited a range of men and women. Only the men argue the starting salary - I'd be happy to pay the extra to get them in, but when I make sure to compare experience with the rest of the team I decline because it would be unfair. I doubt everybody is as diligent / awesome as I am.
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Post by technoish on Nov 18, 2021 12:39:08 GMT
Even with the domestic role situation the pay ranges are unequal. I know plenty of women in tech and to a person they are all in way lower ranges and salary roles then their male coworkers, engineer 1 doing the work of engineer 3, men being auto-granted YOE for a higher place on the range but women having to painfully justify raises in line with inflation in their reviews. Part of the ridiculous amount of training I have to do is for diversity in recruitment. Women will be put off by aggressively worded adverts asking for 'Go getting security engineers to punch hackers in their throats' and anything asking for a laundry list of requirements. The said that, iirc, if you put out a job advert with a list of 10 competencies, a woman is unlikely to apply if she hits less than 9/10 whereas a man will YOLO in an application if they tick off half of them. I was regularly getting job adverts knocked back from HR for being too butch (or, more accurately, me being lazy and just listing things rather than actually writing a description) until I learned to tone it down and verily did I get more women applying. We use a bit of software that analyzes for bias and suggests changes/alternatives.
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Bongo Heracles
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Post by Bongo Heracles on Nov 18, 2021 12:48:10 GMT
Im sure my adverts are run through an HR-o-tron, too.
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gray
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Post by gray on Nov 18, 2021 13:03:24 GMT
Our tech department of just over 30 is a 50/50 split. But HR is exclusively women and all Operations team leaders all the way up to COO are all women. Birds are taking over innit.
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Nov 18, 2021 13:07:45 GMT
I was on a hiring panel for a recent recruitment. We were encouraged to hire for diversity, but since the average applicant in our industry is "woman in their 30s" it was pretty funny/weird to have the hiring manager encourage us to shortlist more men.
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nazo
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Post by nazo on Nov 18, 2021 13:18:39 GMT
What is this industry and can I have a job?
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MolarAm🔵
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Nov 18, 2021 13:21:52 GMT
What is this industry and can I have a job? Libraries, and good luck finding a job at one in England.
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geefe
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Post by geefe on Nov 18, 2021 13:43:33 GMT
One of the weirdest things I ever had, years ago, was a female HR manager having to support a male staff member who'd been accused of derogatory behaviour towards a woman.
Honestly it was like one of those Uncle Tom situations.
"These things happen, it's miscommunication" said one woman to another as she defended sexism
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Post by Sarfrin on Nov 18, 2021 19:53:03 GMT
I see that it's equal pay day today according to twitter. The day when women pretend they don't earn the same as men to stir up pointless outrage. You're literally posting this on the same page as comments about a company who made a woman co leader in the wake of a sexual harassment scandal and paid her less than her male counterpart.
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Lukus
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Post by Lukus on Nov 18, 2021 21:11:48 GMT
What we need in this thread is the input of MrTomftw.
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Post by jeepers on Nov 18, 2021 21:20:40 GMT
What we need in this thread is the input of MrTomftw. This thread has missed the heady mix of sixth-form gender politics and ogling twenty year old female Twitch streamers.
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Post by Jambowayoh on Nov 18, 2021 21:21:12 GMT
Spandex for all!
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Nov 18, 2021 22:13:14 GMT
Is this going to be mandatory?! 😑
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Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Nov 18, 2021 22:23:24 GMT
Is this going to be mandatory?! 😑 The options are spandex or crotchless chaps. Dress down Friday tomorrow though so jeans are OK.
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dogbot
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Post by dogbot on Nov 18, 2021 22:52:45 GMT
Is this going to be mandatory?! 😑 The options are spandex or crotchless chaps. Dress down Friday tomorrow though so jeans are OK. I'm not really a jeans guy. I guess it's the chaps, then.
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hedben
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Post by hedben on Nov 23, 2021 13:11:51 GMT
Did anyone see the stuff about JK Rowling getting "doxxed" yesterday?
Three trans rights activists held placards and took a photo outside her house "with the address visible" and she took to Twitter to complain about being targeted/harassed. My initial view was "ok, regardless what you think of their views, you can't doxx someone, it's just playing into their hands at best"
But it turns out the photo they took didn't have a house number and street name or whatever, it was just a sign saying "(Housename) House", and the reason that doxxes her is she lives in a huge fuckoff mansion that you can find just by the name - because of course she does.
Also the same mansion is mentioned in many local guides as her house, and has obviously been photographed and posted on social media by hundreds of Potter fans over the years. So my sympathy, which wasn't huge to begin with, has basically dried up completely.
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cubby
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Post by cubby on Nov 23, 2021 13:20:15 GMT
I just looked up "activist actors" and the list of who this could be was Leonardo Dicaprio, Mark Ruffalo, Jane Fonda, Angelina Jolie and George Clooney, among others.
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Post by LegendaryApe on Nov 23, 2021 14:16:06 GMT
What is this industry and can I have a job? Libraries, and good luck finding a job at one in England. I'm in a library in Ireland and men are outnumbered here greatly in all branches I have experience of. Though the current boss and his second in command are dudes, though. And horrible spiteful bile-filled pustules. I've been in public sector jobs in a few departments and it's mostly women. Maybe clerical officer isn't a cool enough title for the blokes.
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Post by Aunt Alison on Nov 23, 2021 18:02:16 GMT
Did anyone see the stuff about JK Rowling getting "doxxed" yesterday? Three trans rights activists held placards and took a photo outside her house "with the address visible" and she took to Twitter to complain about being targeted/harassed. My initial view was "ok, regardless what you think of their views, you can't doxx someone, it's just playing into their hands at best" But it turns out the photo they took didn't have a house number and street name or whatever, it was just a sign saying "(Housename) House", and the reason that doxxes her is she lives in a huge fuckoff mansion that you can find just by the name - because of course she does. Also the same mansion is mentioned in many local guides as her house, and has obviously been photographed and posted on social media by hundreds of Potter fans over the years. So my sympathy, which wasn't huge to begin with, has basically dried up completely. Unless it's seen as a call to arms on Twitter, which is what it was probably intended as, otherwise what's the point
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