cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,386
|
Post by cubby on Oct 29, 2021 18:33:19 GMT
The range of people being primarily anti trans groups.
|
|
|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Oct 29, 2021 18:39:56 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by 😎 on Oct 29, 2021 18:46:50 GMT
Get the L Out is literally anti-trans. That's right there in their mission statement.
|
|
|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Oct 29, 2021 18:53:02 GMT
But they are not the sole or primary source of info for the article. There is a range of views and input from different people.
I should clarify that there is an continual and unrelenting wave of anti Trans press and hate directed towards the community which is horrific and needs to be addressed.
I just don't believe this article is part of that.
|
|
|
|
Post by 😎 on Oct 29, 2021 19:05:29 GMT
No, but they are the first and most prominent. Again, there's a big difference between what's stated and what's implied (intentionally or no). Doubly-so when you take into account stuff like article scroll depth (most people will only read the first 50% or so of any given article of length) and SEO stuff. Triply-so when you take into account the article itself breaks the beeb's own guidelines on reporting (which is one of the cruxes of the complaints - they use a flawed study as the chief backbone of their stats). It's a bad article that's wholly unhelpful to the conversation, regardless of the intent.
|
|
hedben
Junior Member
Formerly: hedben2013
Posts: 2,203
Member is Online
|
Post by hedben on Oct 29, 2021 19:07:55 GMT
If the article had been about a few white women feeling pressured into sex with black men who they weren't attracted to, and *crucially*, the recurring theme in each case was the different race of victim and aggressor, no-one would be talking about "telling their story" or "believing the victims". It would be seen as a totally transparent attempt to paint all black men as sexually aggressive.
And to be clear- you can't police who someone is or isn't attracted to. It's not that the hamfisted race analogy shows that people are racist if they are more or less attracted to certain races, or that lesbians are transphobic if they reject trans women (we don't have time to open that can of worms). It's that publishing such a transparent racebaiting article would be considered beyond the pale, but when it's about a few individual lesbians who had a bad experience with a trans woman, apparently it's editorially sound and worthy of public debate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2021 19:15:58 GMT
I really don't want to get involved with this big ol bag of dicks but are the UK media really known worldwide for being savagely anti-trans? Yep. To the extent the US Guardian has repeatedly distanced themselves from the UK version, specifically calling out the UK one as trans unfriendly. |
|
|
|
Post by Jambowayoh on Oct 29, 2021 19:18:19 GMT
I really don't want to get involved with this big ol bag of dicks but are the UK media really known worldwide for being savagely anti-trans? Yep. To the extent the US Guardian has repeatedly distanced themselves from the UK version, specifically calling out the UK one as trans unfriendly. Source? |
|
|
|
Post by 😎 on Oct 29, 2021 19:19:17 GMT
|
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,649
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 29, 2021 19:21:05 GMT
The language being used is exactly the same as the gay bashing of yesteryear.
Gays assaulting people in toilets, gays pressuring other dudes into sex… it’s just another pathetic moral panic, no different to the shit our parents came out with.
|
|
|
|
Post by 😎 on Oct 29, 2021 19:26:02 GMT
Just to frame it a bit as well, Get the L Out refuse to see any trans women as women or trans men as men, and are also against women transitioning under seemingly any circumstances, calling it misogynist medical abuse. Their cause is well beyond just "lesbians should be allowed a preference"
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2021 19:27:29 GMT
Cheers. That was one I was about to post. |
|
hedben
Junior Member
Formerly: hedben2013
Posts: 2,203
Member is Online
|
Post by hedben on Oct 29, 2021 19:32:15 GMT
The language being used is exactly the same as the gay bashing of yesteryear. Gays assaulting people in toilets, gays pressuring other dudes into sex… it’s just another pathetic moral panic, no different to the shit our parents came out with. And yet some of yesteryear's victims are falling for it. I get that you're being a bit flippant with "the shit our parents came out with", I really do. But one of the things that stings me about this particular panic is that it can sweep up people who were on the receiving end not too long ago. Such as my mum, who has been a proud lesbian since I was about 3 years old - Guardian reader, lifelong feminist, Facebook user, and has recently expressed the same "valid concerns" about womens spaces etc. that I hear from the worst TERF mouthpieces. I was out with her on anti Clause 28 demos in the 80s FFS. And yet she apparently can't see that the rhetoric is the same, repackaged for a new audience. |
|
|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Oct 29, 2021 19:33:57 GMT
Ultimately people have come forward and said this is something I have experienced.
Surely the correct response is to acknowledge these incidents and look for solutions rather than paint their experiences as transphobic or irrelevant.
|
|
|
|
Post by grizzly on Oct 29, 2021 19:41:37 GMT
Ultimately people have come forward and said this is something I have experienced. Surely the correct response is to acknowledge these incidents and look for solutions rather than paint their experiences as transphobic or irrelevant. People aren't painting experiences as transphobic or irrelevant, people are critiquing the disingenous portrayal of groups like the LGB alliance and Get the L out in this BBC article and expect better journalistic standards. That's something entirely different from what you're complaining about here.
|
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,649
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 29, 2021 19:42:09 GMT
The problem is, if you look at the people coming forward, it's almost certainly in bad faith. I believe one of the people involved has admitted to posting stickers up saying 'genital preference is transphobia' expressly to get the LGBT community riled up at trans activism.
|
|
|
|
Post by grizzly on Oct 29, 2021 19:44:32 GMT
The problem is, if you look at the people coming forward, it's almost certainly in bad faith. I believe one of the people involved has admitted to posting stickers up saying 'genital preference is transphobia' expressly to get the LGBT community riled up at trans activism. Do you have a link for that?
|
|
|
|
Post by Resident Knievel on Oct 29, 2021 19:44:41 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by 😎 on Oct 29, 2021 19:49:45 GMT
Ultimately people have come forward and said this is something I have experienced. Surely the correct response is to acknowledge these incidents and look for solutions rather than paint their experiences as transphobic or irrelevant. And there's ways to do that without mixing it up with a load of bad faith arguments and bad actors. Like the complaints say, it's pretty clear that a lot of people interviewed have a "trans women are men" viewpoint and, as already pointed out, one of the organizations highlighted is absolutely anti-trans. If you want to have a candid and frank conversation about a delicate subject, you don't come out of the gate swinging. |
|
|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Oct 29, 2021 19:51:26 GMT
Ultimately people have come forward and said this is something I have experienced. Surely the correct response is to acknowledge these incidents and look for solutions rather than paint their experiences as transphobic or irrelevant. People aren't painting experiences as transphobic or irrelevant, people are critiquing the disingenous portrayal of groups like the LGB alliance and Get the L out in this BBC article and expect better journalistic standards. That's something entirely different from what you're complaining about here.
But the article isn't a puff piece for those organisations. It simply features input from them. I agree it would have benefited from not including Get The L Out (whose approach is clearly transphobic) but I assume they are included as this is a topic on which they are fairly outspoken. One of the recurring themes from the victims is a reluctance to sat anything due to potential backlash. |
|
Bongo Heracles
Junior Member
Technically illegal to ride on public land
Posts: 4,649
|
Post by Bongo Heracles on Oct 29, 2021 19:58:26 GMT
The problem is, if you look at the people coming forward, it's almost certainly in bad faith. I believe one of the people involved has admitted to posting stickers up saying 'genital preference is transphobia' expressly to get the LGBT community riled up at trans activism. Do you have a link for that?
And as a bonus, one of the women featured in the article on trans predatoes is allegedly a rapist |
|
|
|
Post by grizzly on Oct 29, 2021 20:07:15 GMT
But the article isn't a puff piece for those organisations. It is. The majority of paragraphs in the article is dedicated to viewpoints from spokespeople from those organizations. It's extremely telling to me that Stonewall, the biggest LGBT rights activist group in Europe, gets one paragraph yet the LGB alliance that specifically opposes Stonewall gets its own header and more then a page of words. Similar treatment is given to Get the L out and Speak up for women. It absolutely is a puff piece, giving nothing more then lip service to "opposing viewpoints". |
|
|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Oct 29, 2021 20:09:20 GMT
Does the article "insinuate trans people are potential rapists" that's a fairly hot take.
It's got that "not all men" energy.
|
|
|
|
Post by grizzly on Oct 29, 2021 20:15:24 GMT
Does the article "insinuate trans people are potential rapists" that's a fairly hot take. It's got that "not all men" energy. What do you think "Pressuring someone into sex" is
|
|
cubby
Full Member
doesn't get subtext
Posts: 6,386
|
Post by cubby on Oct 29, 2021 20:15:27 GMT
Dude, I was the one who linked to it like 4 pages back. I've read it. |
|
|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Oct 29, 2021 20:18:51 GMT
Does the article "insinuate trans people are potential rapists" that's a fairly hot take. It's got that "not all men" energy. What do you think "Pressuring someone into sex" is
It's the use of "Trans people" which would be the entire community as opposed to say "minority of" or "some" It's deliberate. |
|
|
|
Post by 😎 on Oct 29, 2021 20:35:23 GMT
So you're okay with the language and framing used in the article itself, but not okay with the language used in a tweet that also highlights major problems with the article?
That seems more like a "not all men" hot take to me to be honest.
|
|
|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Oct 29, 2021 20:47:19 GMT
What I am not Ok with is rather than the accounts of these people being taken onboard and listened to instead the energy is being used to investigate and discredit.
Lets say that one of those victims did post stickers had an anti trans leaning, Does that mean she is a liar and her claims are irrelevant?
|
|
|
|
Post by grizzly on Oct 29, 2021 20:48:02 GMT
What do you think "Pressuring someone into sex" is
It's the use of "Trans people" which would be the entire community as opposed to say "minority of" or "some" It's deliberate. Again you really, fucking really should look into Get the L Out. |
|
|
|
Post by GigaChad Sigma. on Oct 29, 2021 20:50:40 GMT
I agree that organisation is clearly transphobic.
|
|
