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Post by damagedinc on Nov 14, 2022 11:56:40 GMT
Max and Lewis will always end up like this. They both refuse to back out now and in some respects can't blame either of them. Just don't get pissy when it goes against you.
In some ways I completly understand max refusing to fuck about with swapping positions. Also kind of respect the absolute no fucks given approach.
What baffles me, is doing it when both titles are done and there is nothing to gain really. Red bull PR is in the mud and this is noise they could do without. Yes max is the golden boy. Yes he will win multiple championships, however red bull want a marketing machine. Something lewis has perfected, max being such a marmite character will lose them alot of money and fans over the years. Yes Yes senna/schumacher etc were similar however f1 is a different beast now and so is internet/social media/ public perception and image is more important than it ever was.
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Post by monkman5000 on Nov 14, 2022 12:17:38 GMT
Are you suggesting Lewis Hamilton is not a marmite racing driver? I'm on record as being a marmite fan, but many aren't.
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Gruf
Junior Member
Even more taciturn than my name suggests
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Post by Gruf on Nov 14, 2022 12:18:50 GMT
Anyway just watched Karun's analysis of the Lewis/Max incident, definitive as usual. Another one of those Max moves where he carries too much speed in to hold a line then blames the other guy for them not leaping out of his way. Still felt Lewis should/could have left him more room but that set of corners always results in those clumsy incidents. I can vouch for that, seen mistakes like this countless times in iRacing by over optimistic and much dumber drivers
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Post by damagedinc on Nov 14, 2022 12:23:14 GMT
Are you suggesting Lewis Hamilton is not a marmite racing driver? I'm on record as being a marmite fan, but many aren't. Apart from a few Brits that don't like his tax status and "accent" I think he's quite popular in most places? ; )
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Post by dangerousdave on Nov 14, 2022 15:06:43 GMT
I am not Hamilton's biggest fan, but I'll take him over Verstappen and Alonso any day. What he said yesterday doesn't make him look bad in a villain kind of way, but rather a bit stupid and mentally under developed.
"I went for an overtake. I didn't think it would work out. It didn't work out. I didn't lose anything. If the car in front had just moved out of my way they could have won the race later on. Their loss. They made the wrong decision."
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Post by TheSaint on Nov 14, 2022 16:02:50 GMT
Horner creates these entitled arseholes and then wonders why the driver relationship breaks down. We have seen it with Vettel / Webber, Max / Daniel and now Max / Checo.
He should have been the one on the radio yesterday telling him to let Perez pass. But he doesn't want to piss off his golden boy.
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Post by monkman5000 on Nov 14, 2022 16:49:03 GMT
Are you suggesting Lewis Hamilton is not a marmite racing driver? I'm on record as being a marmite fan, but many aren't. Apart from a few Brits that don't like his tax status and "accent" I think he's quite popular in most places? ; ) Paging Solid
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nazo
Junior Member
Posts: 1,136
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Post by nazo on Nov 14, 2022 17:52:14 GMT
If Perez did deliberately crash at Monaco I do lose a bit of sympathy for him. Not that it excuses Max it but does suggest Red Bull have a thing for employing cunts.
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Post by brokenkey on Nov 14, 2022 17:55:10 GMT
Apart from doubts about his sincerity, what are the other reasons people don't like Lewis?
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Post by TheSaint on Nov 14, 2022 23:27:15 GMT
Well he’s not very popular with the racists.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2022 0:37:46 GMT
Apart from doubts about his sincerity, what are the other reasons people don't like Lewis? I don't like him, but I massively respect him. Not sure why, mostly the off the track fashion type stuff from a few years back. I don't dislike him either. Whereas Vettel I genuinely like as well as respect, but Ricciardo I fucking love, but have little respect for.
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Post by muddyfunster on Nov 15, 2022 13:03:48 GMT
Apart from doubts about his sincerity, what are the other reasons people don't like Lewis? He certainly wasn't very charismatic or likeable when he was younger. Often came off as fake as alluded to above. Whilst rarely rude he'd seem either guarded or brash in interviews and fairly prickly if he'd had a bad day. There was certainly arrogance there as well. Playing cod psychologist, if you took someone who'd been bullied a lot but also succeeded at everything he tried I'd say you get a personality like young Hamilton. To me, he's seemed far more comfortable with himself in his 30s and much more likeable as a result.
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Post by damagedinc on Nov 17, 2022 7:46:38 GMT
Not really a suprise. Hulk confirmed
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Post by muddyfunster on Nov 17, 2022 9:22:27 GMT
Bit conflicted. I like Mick but I do think Hulk is the better driver and didn't deserve to be booted out of F1 when he was.
Equally I think Mick has scope to improve to Hulk's level (but probably not the top level) given a couple more years.
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Post by damagedinc on Nov 17, 2022 11:12:34 GMT
Feel like hulkenberg has had his time. Would rather fresh meat come through oooo er.
However it does seem teams are backing experience more and more. For a team like haas it does make total sense. They prob seeing what someone like kmag is bringing on track and behind the scenes in comparison to mazepin/schumacher and that's made the choice easier.
I imagine schumacher will get a reserve seat somewhere and get another crack at it
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Post by brokenkey on Nov 17, 2022 15:02:30 GMT
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Post by damagedinc on Nov 17, 2022 15:19:09 GMT
Verstappen said: "After the race, I looked very bad in the media. But they didn't have the clear picture.
"To immediately put me down like that is pretty ridiculous. All the things I have read are pretty disgusting.
Almost like him throwing a tantrum on the radio and then being completly aloof to the reasons why was going to keep the media and fans quiet?
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Post by damagedinc on Nov 17, 2022 15:21:46 GMT
The tactics clearly are to mask any bad pr or wrong doing with gas lighting and blaming others. Then wonder why there's such a toxic atmosphere amongst fans.
Perfect opportunity for....
"I was completly out of line, perez has done so much for me and the team. I was frustrated with a bad race and we made it clear there would be no team orders between us. So I was a little thrown off and annoyed I'm sorry, there was speculation that it was due to the incident in monaco. Ive discussed this with the team and perez and completly satisfied that no foul play was involved"
Completly takes the sting out the story, the odd statement redbull release double downing on protecting max just makes it all the so much worse.
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Post by muddyfunster on Nov 17, 2022 15:34:25 GMT
This is precisely the sort of thing I was talking about when I said Red Bull (tbf Horner especially) stoke the toxicity with their confrontational approach to the media.
Maybe his reaction is justified, I have no idea what comments he's even referring to. Anyone know? Obviously, it wouldn't shock me if a tabloid wrote something nasty, but assuming it's 'proper' media as suggested, there are legal recourses. On a related note, his parents are both famous in Holland for their own sporting success, his girlfriend is a celebrity in her own right, and they are all public figures to various degrees. Discussion of his family isn't exactly beyond the pale in and of itself.
The problem is he and Red Bull are constantly doing controversial stuff on and off track, that provokes a reaction, then they very publicly and confrontationally respond to the reaction, thereby making it an even bigger deal.
Coming so soon after their ridiculous 2-day boycott of Sky for a largely imagined slight, it isn't exactly surprising when the reaction is 'Max is mouthing off again' rather than an attempt to see if the outrage is justified this time.
Returning to the actual subject of this latest controversy: maybe if Max hadn't very publicly embarrassed his team and teammate, then effectively created an information vacuum with a refusal to explain himself, the media wouldn't speculate on why he behaves as he does.
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Post by damagedinc on Nov 17, 2022 15:38:43 GMT
Exactly and as before I almost have to think this is a legitimate marketing strategy now.
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Post by damagedinc on Nov 17, 2022 15:41:43 GMT
In terms of public comments, they're providing a voice for the dregs of twitter. I follow pretty much most f1 accounts and not seen anything too bad.
Red bull were happy to fuel the lewis attempted murderer hamilton last year and accuse him of drug taking.
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Post by muddyfunster on Nov 17, 2022 15:45:08 GMT
He and Horner are increasingly Trumpian. Incredibly sensitive to criticism (either personal or to their ideas), they hold a grudge for ages, and are seemingly outraged by anyone even questioning their approach or authority.
It's not exactly a mystery why things are getting toxic in F1.
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Post by brokenkey on Nov 17, 2022 17:06:28 GMT
/r/formuladank drew a few comparisons between Max and his dad's behaviour, suggesting Max had gone back to the pit and used his fists to beat the rest of the crew into accepting if was their fault. Then him mum suggested that Perez had been out cheating on his wife.
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Post by muddyfunster on Nov 17, 2022 17:34:57 GMT
a) I don't know what Formula Dank is? b) that seems like a very poor-taste joke, but surely not worth Max commenting on and thereby drawing attention to it? His Dad's police record is public knowledge so realistically it will be referenced in places he shouldn't even be troubling himself with. c) Did his Mum seriously do that? Sounds like bullshit? If so he's succeeded in making his team environment far more toxic than necessary for no reason. Is he trying to force Perez out?
Just playing devil's advocate. Let's say Perez did cheat at Monaco and Max 'knows' this. Max stirring it up to the extent that it could lead to an investigation. That's really not a good scenario for his employer, never mind his team mate. It's such an incredibly reckless way to approach the problem.
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Post by muddyfunster on Nov 17, 2022 17:43:33 GMT
Have located google. Formula Dank is "The land of the Formula 1 golden shitposts and memes" on Reddit. I thought it was some German media outlet! It's literally just a bunch of silly memes. There's no reason to waste his time even looking at this stuff. Think damagedinc is right, this must be faux outrage and a conscious strategy.
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Post by brokenkey on Nov 17, 2022 18:17:43 GMT
formula dank is the funniest place to watch real-time reaction to races. They generally hate on Lewis/Mercedes and think Max is king, so this week was a big come-down for them.
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Post by damagedinc on Nov 17, 2022 18:19:06 GMT
I'm telling you shithousing and causing a "stir" online is totally what they're after
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Post by brokenkey on Nov 17, 2022 18:19:11 GMT
c) Did his Mum seriously do that? Sounds like bullshit? If so he's succeeded in making his team environment far more toxic than necessary for no reason. Is he trying to force Perez out? She did:
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Post by muddyfunster on Nov 17, 2022 18:40:20 GMT
What a lovely bunch they are.
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Whizzo
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Wanting to return to square one
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Post by Whizzo on Nov 17, 2022 19:53:26 GMT
I think even Dick Dastardly would probably not want to be associated with RBR.
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