aubergine
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I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Nov 18, 2021 3:22:14 GMT
For context, I hated Batman Returns, Batman Forever and Batman And Robin. I liked Dark Night Rises better on repeat viewings, it obviously wouldn’t be possible to top Nolan’s Joker movie. I just wish the bad guys’ plan made just a little more sense.
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MolarAm🔵
Full Member
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Post by MolarAm🔵 on Nov 18, 2021 3:25:54 GMT
I'm not saying that Batman and Robin is a good film, mind (though I can see what they were trying to achieve with it)
Just that I enjoyed it more. It was dumb, and it was fun (in a bad kind of way), and Chris Nolan is constitutionally incapable of making things that have fun in them. That self-seriousness worked fine for Begins and TDK, but Rises was crying out for a sense of humor, and none was to be had.
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Post by baihu1983 on Nov 18, 2021 3:30:07 GMT
It was pointless to change the script and have Talia a twist.
By that point plenty of picks had leaked of her and Hardy filming scenes together but Nolan them felt the need to try and cover it up
Still best death..EVER.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Nov 18, 2021 4:06:11 GMT
For context, I hated Batman Returns, Batman Forever and Batman And Robin. I liked Dark Night Rises better on repeat viewings, it obviously wouldn’t be possible to top Nolan’s Joker movie. I just wish the bad guys’ plan made just a little more sense. I can understand hating Forever and Batman & Robin (in a native language), but how could anyone hate Batman Returns? I rewatched it recently and it's still bloody great. The Dark Knight is probably better, but not by much. It was pointless to change the script and have Talia a twist. By that point plenty of picks had leaked of her and Hardy filming scenes together but Nolan them felt the need to try and cover it up Still best death..EVER. I don't know what they changed, but the Talia Twist was pretty great imho. Most people, including me, wouldn't be aware of any leaks anyway. The flaw with it was that they did a cool Twist, and then almost immediately killed her off in an underwhelming way. They needed the twist to be a little earlier, and then have her kick ass for a while before getting beaten. As it is, it's like 'Oh shit! She's....! I didn't see that coming! I can't bel... oh, she's dead? Oh well..." |
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
Posts: 2,181
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Post by aubergine on Nov 18, 2021 7:25:08 GMT
Bane is a much funnier and wittier character than people I think get. I lolled when he said “what a lovely lovely voice” at the match, and the whole movie he’s trolling people hard. “It would be very painful. For you.” “Now is not the time for fear. That comes later.” And the other characters have lots of funny lines but they are very dry, I’d have to watch again to find examples, but I’m pretty sure Morgan Freeman is constantly shading people.
You can say that’s not really laugh out loud comedy, but I didn’t laugh out loud at anything in the four pre-Nolan Batman movies either. Groaned maybe.
My only issue with TDKR overall is that the villains plot to blow themselves up along with Gotham doesn’t make sense. It only would have taken a single line for them to show that they recognise they are also going to die and that it’s somehow part of their ideological goal. But I was just, this is an ancient gang who ruins cities over Millenia, wouldn’t they need to survive to keep doing that?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2021 7:59:48 GMT
He wouldn't be taking down the entire organisation with him. He'd be making himself a martyr for the cause. It's not that complex.
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Post by drhickman1983 on Nov 18, 2021 8:00:38 GMT
Batman Begins is the best Nolan Batman film. Dark Knight And Dark Knight Rises are a bit too self-important and suffer from awful pacing.
I actually think Dark Knight is only amazing because of Ledger's performance. It's outstanding, and elevates the entire film, but without that it would be no better than DKR.
The Tim Burton Batman films are probably still the best live action Batman films.
Mask of the Phantasm is better still though.
(To be honest ever since watching Tenet I've found myself re-evaluating Nolan's films. Tenet was so shit it's retroactively made me feel less warm to his earlier films. Almost like my scorn IS TRAVELING BACK THROUGH TIME)
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Post by baihu1983 on Nov 18, 2021 8:18:57 GMT
I didn't like that they dumped the narrows after Begins and Gotham just became another normal looking city.
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Post by Reviewer on Nov 18, 2021 8:29:56 GMT
I’d have liked more Scarecrow, Cillian Murphy is a fantastic actor. Sounds like he has a major role in the next Nolan film.
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geefe
Full Member
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Post by geefe on Nov 18, 2021 18:19:57 GMT
Loved Batman as a kid and Returns (though I was far too young for both). Returns hasn't aged well at all really. It's less than the sum of its parts, somehow.
Forever and Robin...yep. they exist. At least in the fourth everyone knows it's shit.
But TDK and DKR have aged, the latter especially. Pacing is awful. I feel like Nolan is really good at scenes but shouldn't be left to plan out the whole film.
Quite telling the only one of his I can rewatch is Prestige.
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anephric
Junior Member
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Post by anephric on Nov 18, 2021 18:40:43 GMT
Loved Batman Returns at the time, I love it even more now. I can see not maybe loving it as a Batman film, but it's a great Tim Burton film from a time when he still gave a shit. And Daniel Waters' script is great (but maybe not quite as archly funny as it thinks it is).
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Post by Bill in the rain on Nov 19, 2021 8:01:14 GMT
Loved Batman as a kid and Returns (though I was far too young for both). Returns hasn't aged well at all really. It's less than the sum of its parts, somehow. I would disagree on Returns. I think it's aged really well. The original Batman, not so much. It's not awful, but the action is relatively small scale and slow paced by modern standards. Returns feels much more like a modern superhero film, albeit with a Burtonesque twist (from when he was still good). |
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Post by damagedinc on Nov 19, 2021 8:09:19 GMT
Now I thought tenet was brilliant
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Post by Reviewer on Nov 19, 2021 8:59:46 GMT
Every marvel thread turns into a Batman then Nolan thread.
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Post by neilch on Nov 19, 2021 10:35:52 GMT
Still debating whether I want to go see No Way Home, Spiderman as a main character generally doesn't excite me although the Tobey Maguire one was enjoyable enough. He really feels like he shoud be in an amateur detective TV series
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Nov 20, 2021 0:57:31 GMT
Doctor Strange is obviously the main character, with this leading in to DS2.
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Post by simple on Nov 20, 2021 9:11:39 GMT
I’m way more hyped for Hawkeye debuting on Wednesday than I’d have expected to be at any point during the Infinity Saga
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Post by Reviewer on Nov 20, 2021 9:47:30 GMT
The Hawkeye trailers do look decent, even if I suspect it would have been better as a film or two parter which will be spread over too many episodes.
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Nov 20, 2021 10:17:04 GMT
I think it’s going to work. Frankly, I think it will work better than as a movie. Hawkeye as a character is more TV Show than Movie.
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Post by Bill in the rain on Nov 20, 2021 11:00:51 GMT
It's Die Hard Christmas the Series, which works for me.
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Post by britesparc on Nov 25, 2021 12:28:11 GMT
Came on to talk about Hawkeye and now disappointed I'd missed out on all the Batman/Nolan discussion. I love talking about his Batman films as my favourite is Rises!
Anyway, Hawkeye (which I keep spelling "Halkeye" for some reason) is bloody great, I loved it. Best MCU TV since WandaVision.
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lexw
New Member
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Post by lexw on Nov 25, 2021 13:19:04 GMT
First two episodes of Hawkeye work largely because Steinfeld is pretty good and they're generally fairly well-judged. it's pretty clear the Hawkeye of the title is her, though, so any Renner fans (if they exist) should bear that in mind.
Not sure how I feel about her Batman-esque background, but it feels less gross than I expected, somehow actually less awful than Peter Parker essentially being raised up by Tony Stark, which just... Ugh.
I liked it better than WandaVision or Falcon, it feels less dishonest/tryhard somehow.
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H-alphaFox
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Post by H-alphaFox on Nov 25, 2021 13:45:45 GMT
Hawkeye's eldest has a creepy Rittenhouse look to him.
That aside the first episode was decent, going to watch second tonight.
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Post by britesparc on Nov 25, 2021 13:47:56 GMT
WandaVision is my absolute highlight of year, not just in TV, but in anything. However I love really weird tricksy stuff like that, metafictional stuff, even if it didn't quite stick the landing.
But I agree, much better than Falcon so far, better than the first two eps of Loki (which didn't get great until it refocused on Loki & Sylvie as a double-act), and better than the wild shifts in tone and quality that was What If.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 15:00:37 GMT
For me, the top Marvel show was Falcon & Winter Soldier, and this very much has the potential to take the number two slot. I liked moments of both Wandavision and Loki, but neither lit my world on fire.
I really enjoyed these first two episodes though.
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jono62
Full Member
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Post by jono62 on Nov 25, 2021 15:25:19 GMT
If I'm looking at recent Marvel shows as a whole, then I'd say I enjoyed Daredevil the most.
Will give Hawkeye a look. Enjoying going back to weekly episode shows.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 15:32:21 GMT
I'm sort of excluding the Netflix shows because I don't believe they're canon to the overall MCU, though that might change with the rumors of Charlie Cox being in Spidey 3. But out of those, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones were the two best, but really enjoyed Daredevil and Punisher as well.
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aubergine
Junior Member
I must get over myself
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Post by aubergine on Nov 25, 2021 22:51:34 GMT
I guess it’s good that there’s a real diversity of opinion in here. Never thought I’d see someone list Falcon / WS as their favourite series, or that Daredevil might not have been easily the greatest of the Netflix shows. The second episode ends lingering on this random woman that I guess we’re meant to recognise? It was a weird way to end the episode, anyway. Overall I’m betting it turns out Kate Bishop’s mother opportunistically killed her father during the chaos of the 2012 attack, and is otherwise a bigger schemer than her greasebag fiancé. |
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Post by simple on Nov 25, 2021 22:54:38 GMT
Digging Hawkeye so far. Certainly feels like it could end up being the best MCU tv show yet.
On the other three I think Wandavision was the most ambitious, Falcon & Winter Soldier best executed and Loki easily the worst by a distance.
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Derblington
Junior Member
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Post by Derblington on Nov 25, 2021 23:15:23 GMT
The second episode ends lingering on this random woman that I guess we’re meant to recognise? It was a weird way to end the episode, anyway. Nah, you’re meant to wonder who she is. She’ll be around for a while too - she’s a known Marvel character and has her own show coming up - so hopefully she’s handled well. |
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